Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Symptoms of Collapse?

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Symptoms of Collapse?

Unread postby Annatar » Sat 15 Apr 2006, 07:01:15

I was browsing around when I came across this article:

World Gone Mad

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ountries such as our own are more than ever home to people who say they don't belong and don't really want to.
...
And on one scary page after another I discovered a lot of influential people really had given up on defending us and this rotten society.

Sure, you wouldn't have had to borrow my paper to have guessed already that the West was in strife.

Countries such as our own are more than ever home to people who say they don't belong, and don't really want to, either. Brrrr, no.

...
These are not healthy trends. After all, people won't look after things that they don't feel are theirs -- whether it's a Housing Commission flat or a country. And even a country can fall apart with neglect.
...
As I flicked with mounting alarm through that Saturday paper -- The Age, incidentally -- it seemed clear to me that we're in trouble, too.

Sure, I still trust in the good sense of most Australians, but it's clear we can no longer count on our cultural elite to defend our civilisation, if I may put it that grandly. Just flick with me through this one paper, and you'll see how hard it is for many of them to make their country seem worth joining, loving and defending.


One often reads about how bad Western/industrial civilisation has become on peakoil.com, and this article offers a conservative perspective on the 'doom and gloomers'.

When a significant number of people cite a host of reasons about how bad their society has become, even without Peak Oil, it doesn't bode well for that society's future.

Is your society worth defending?
Cheap oil is a RIGHT! Conservation is just letting the terrorists WIN!
User avatar
Annatar
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri 15 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Here, 10^10^28 metres away, and so on.

Re: Symptoms of Collapse?

Unread postby Jack » Sat 15 Apr 2006, 08:22:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Annatar', '
')Is your society worth defending?


Excellent question!

I suspect that much of the West has followed the U.S. pattern, i.e., the only shared value we have is a common marketplace. We're together to make money, and care little about any other factor. One might legitimately ask "What is an American" (Or, equally, a Brit, an Aussie, a Frenchman, or a Dane). At one time, the answer would have listed a number of common factors, but that is no longer the case.

I strongly doubt that anyone will come running to save these societies. Once the checks cease to clear the bank, they will implode. That isn't at all good for anyone, by the way...
Jack
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4929
Joined: Wed 11 Aug 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Symptoms of Collapse?

Unread postby jdumars » Sat 15 Apr 2006, 14:04:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Annatar', 'I')s your society worth defending?


Short answer.... not really.


Long answer...

I am heavily involved in the arts, as a musician, composer, writer, engraver, and historian. My primary creative outlets are through avant garde, experimental and jazz music/expression. Thus I am exposed to many of the top artistic innovators in the country and world. Jazz is widely considered "America's classical music" -- having developed in the rich culture that matured in the 20th century. But, jazz and really all other forms of "American art" have become so marginalized, anachronistic and unsupported that you could hardly even consider them as a part of society or culture at large. In my (somewhat jaded) opinion, artistic innovation does not exist here anymore except in very limited spaces, and certainly bereft of any widespread support.

So what defines the "society"? If you look at classical academic societies where Philomaths ruled the roost, science and math were at the heart of culture. Sadly, our schools and other academic institutions are in such horrific disrepair and inequity that academia has absolutely no chance of becoming a cornerstone of anything. So, what else could we define our society by? Militarism? Religious fundamentalism? These are strong elements in our society, but certainly not intrinsic qualities. Nor are they positive, or worth defending as you ask. So what is left? The corporation. Monoculture. Media saturation. Fear. Conformity. That is not a society with any real redeeming qualities.

Corporations have twisted the very notion of society such that is has very ominous overtones. From the dictionary, a society is "a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests." In history these institutions, traditions and collective activities were focused on relevant regional and familial social groups, and not necessarily dictated from an external single point of influence or control. Furthermore, societies were never intended to be as large as ours is. Sure there are regional differences, but corporations ensure that a Big Mac is the same in Seattle as Macon. Is this worth defending? Is there anything truly American left? Again, I say no. To me, the bulk of this country is a derelict, soulless hulk, a somnambulating corporate juggernaut plowing authentic societies under the poisoned soil with daisy cutters.
User avatar
jdumars
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat 02 Apr 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Symptoms of Collapse?

Unread postby malcomatic_51 » Mon 17 Apr 2006, 07:21:17

There is a school of thought that the Roman Empire disappeared in the West because it failed from within rather than being swept away from without. That is, folk no longer cared much to remain Roman, so they welcomed other "barbarian" cultures that were around. The empire in the East was much robuster in its soul and lasted another thousand years, until Suliemann the Great overran Constantinople in the 1450s.

Although I don't respect the "industrialised culture", and I suspect very few do, it's better than any of the alternatives. I do not want to be part of a Moslem theocracy, nor do I want to return to the decadence of Edwardian aristocracy. I think that is all it still has going for it, but it is a (negative) strength not to be underestimated.
User avatar
malcomatic_51
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat 24 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: UK


Return to Medical Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron