[Barbara]

Sometimes I guess what kind of monsters our male counterparts host in their heads.

While my husband is more or less convinced, I'm having hard time to convince my brother (wife and two kids-need to be convinced!). On Sunday I tried for the last time, answering to all his absurd rebuttals. At the end of an hour discussion, he suddenly shouted on my face "I don't want to give up to Peak Oil consequences... because I'm USELESS!"

I stared at him like he's a mad. Then he explained to me that his skills will be of no use in post-oil world, he knows nothing about cultivations or wells or wind energy or archery or raising poultry. He's a 21st century man so he thinks he will sit and wait for the end if TSHTF, since there's nothing else he can do. He said he's 40, no time and no wish to learn something from the beginning, and about his family (which he loves wholeheartedly) well, they'll follow the destiny. Then he stated he *decided* not to believe PO because of this.

I swear my brother is of normal intelligence LOL, not a Forrest Gump! And also, he's in construction field: he knows of carpentry, construction, water pipes, roofs, chimneys, anything about constructing and he loves to supervise his artisans while working with their hands! I think he's better skilled than 80% of population. Only he doesn't even knows that.

Now I'm guessing: how many people are in denial JUST because they secretly think they aren't fit for survival?

[IanC]

Who knows what the future will bring. I think a lot of us tend to look at the Post Peak future way down the slope of oil depletion rather than try to envision the phases of decline. Granted, that decline could be quite precipitous, but I think it's important to remember that we won't go from the world we have now to an agrarian/survivalist future instantly. Indeed, a lot of people alive today won't be alive when this happens. They'll probably just be made uncomfortable by rising prices and inconvenient transportation.

I think we all run the risk of looking like a bunch of kooks if we advocate tearing up the city streets to plant potatoes (oh, dude, that would be sweet!). Focus on the tangible, and focus your energy on preparing the children and young adults. I always try to remember the utter stupidity of the Y2K scare when I talk to people about PO.

Ian C

PS: My family is in total denial and just can't get their heads around making any changes until the market or gov't forces them to!

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IanC', 'G')ranted, that decline could be quite precipitous, but I think it's important to remember that we won't go from the world we have now to an agrarian/survivalist future instantly.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'N')ow I'm guessing: how many people are in denial JUST because they secretly think they aren't fit for survival?

[NeoPeasant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'S')ometimes I guess what kind of monsters our male counterparts host in their heads.

While my husband is more or less convinced, I'm having hard time to convince my brother (wife and two kids-need to be convinced!). On Sunday I tried for the last time, answering to all his absurd rebuttals. At the end of an hour discussion, he suddenly shouted on my face "I don't want to give up to Peak Oil consequences... because I'm USELESS!"

I stared at him like he's a mad. Then he explained to me that his skills will be of no use in post-oil world, he knows nothing about cultivations or wells or wind energy or archery or raising poultry. He's a 21st century man so he thinks he will sit and wait for the end if TSHTF, since there's nothing else he can do. He said he's 40, no time and no wish to learn something from the beginning, and about his family (which he loves wholeheartedly) well, they'll follow the destiny. Then he stated he *decided* not to believe PO because of this.

I swear my brother is of normal intelligence LOL, not a Forrest Gump! And also, he's in construction field: he knows of carpentry, construction, water pipes, roofs, chimneys, anything about constructing and he loves to supervise his artisans while working with their hands! I think he's better skilled than 80% of population. Only he doesn't even knows that.

Now I'm guessing: how many people are in denial JUST because they secretly think they aren't fit for survival?

[Fishman]

Barbara
Might I plead patience with this person? He recognizes Peak Oil, a major step forward. Give him time to process this info, then gently open his eyes to the skills he already has under his belt. Men work on an ego system, this realization has greatly bruised his ego. Time and a little female guidance will correct the problem.

[mrniceguy]

Not knowing you or your brother or being present during the conversation, I wonder if he is just tired of listening to you and has responded in this way in order to stop you talking about peak oil. I have a sister who refuses to take on board anything I say about the possible consequences of peak oil. She is "too busy" playing world of warcraft to check out any websites I suggest, I have to bite my tongue and pretend that all is well in the world when I see her now otherwise we end up argueing.

Maybe just leaving the subject alone for a while and allowing him to be convinced by rising petrol prices / increasing mainstream media awareness / increasing cost of food etc. is the best option. You've done your part and told him about it, now he needs to make his own mind up.

[loveandrage]

Most people see 2 possibilities.
The possibilities in between are completely up to us.

(outcome based on action)

[NEOPO]

<[START] matrix]rage against the machine]wake up]music.mp3]>

Barb - just alittle patience "yeah yeah"
"you have done your part as a messenger, you have planted the seed, now just be patient danielson".
Thats what people tell me.......seems to be about right.

Ok.......right...fine..........FINE!!!! wax on wax off m#$%#$%^%$^%$!!!;-)

These people - the deniers - these blasphemers of the word - heheh - they may never see.
Reminds me of a theosophical or maybe it was hindu in origin quote .........
"Oh lanoo, a second to see....... an eternity to believe." unknown
Yes that about sums it up nicely.

PO Woke my ass up.
I am still sleepy and cranky!!!!
I want my blankee!!!!!!!

OK "I'm in denial... because I'm USELESS!"
NO but I have gotten this on more then one occassion YET overall I do not see this being 90-95% of the people and yeah I think that maybe your brother was just wanting you to either,
a: STAND DOWN
b: remind him of just how talented he really is
Men work on ego right?

This topic leads me to other thoughts.........

So what are we going to do?
We cannot "setup camp" and prepare for everyone yet we feel compelled to set up camp and ASAP please!!! right????

Screw it then I say we prepare and set a good example without them as much as possible and do not allow them to deter us or diminish our vision of a sustainable future.
If we have the means to prepare for more then ourselves then thats probably a good idea as well.
We do not all have the means or the desire to do "it" alone thus some of us may join others already doing "it" or join with those ABOUT to do "it".
Sounds sexy babee yeah!!!

Seriously Barb - it is a beautiful and wondrous quality for us to be able to understand PO let alone attempt to teach others to prepare while we prepare.
Makes me tired just thinking about it.

"The woman......She uses Logic before emotion - this CANNOT BE!!!" ;-)
From my experiences with the female of the human species this quality is rare indeed as many work on emotions rather then logic.
I think sometimes the only difference between men and women is that men put on a better logical "front" then women do

They are lacking and you are the exception - something to feel good about dear.

ok - Time to go - gotta goto ebay and snag up cheap but good camping gear for our ecovillage trek this summer!!!
I hear these folks like to play frisbee and poop in buckets hahah...
we shall see.
Havent they heard of the human humus machine???
I will be the first eco villager on my block with a crapper that doesnt need to be dumped once a week!! Thats what I am talking about babee yeah!!

<[END] matrix]rage against the machine]wake up]music.mp3]>

[NEOPO]

<[START] matrix]rage against the machine]wake up]music.mp3]>

Barb - just alittle patience "yeah yeah"
"you have done your part as a messenger, you have planted the seed, now just be patient danielson".
Thats what people tell me.......seems to be about right.

Ok.......right...fine..........FINE!!!! wax on wax off m#$%#$%^%$^%$!!!;-)

These people - the deniers - these blasphemers of the word - heheh - they may never see.
Reminds me of a theosophical or maybe it was hindu in origin quote .........
"Oh lanoo, a second to see....... an eternity to believe." unknown
Yes that about sums it up nicely.

PO Woke my ass up.
I am still sleepy and cranky!!!!
I want my blankee!!!!!!!

OK "I'm in denial... because I'm USELESS!"
NO but I have gotten this on more then one occassion YET overall I do not see this being 90-95% of the people and yeah I think that maybe your brother was just wanting you to either,
a: STAND DOWN
b: remind him of just how talented he really is
Men work on ego right?

This topic leads me to other thoughts.........

So what are we going to do?
We cannot "setup camp" and prepare for everyone yet we feel compelled to set up camp and ASAP please!!! right????

Screw it then I say we prepare and set a good example without them as much as possible and do not allow them to deter us or diminish our vision of a sustainable future.
If we have the means to prepare for more then ourselves then thats probably a good idea as well.
We do not all have the means or the desire to do "it" alone thus some of us may join others already doing "it" or join with those ABOUT to do "it".
Sounds sexy babee yeah!!!

Seriously Barb - it is a beautiful and wondrous quality for us to be able to understand PO let alone attempt to teach others to prepare while we prepare.
Makes me tired just thinking about it.

"The woman......She uses Logic before emotion - this CANNOT BE!!!" ;-)
From my experiences with the female of the human species this quality is rare indeed as many work on emotions rather then logic.
I think sometimes the only difference between men and women is that men put on a better logical "front" then women do

They are lacking and you are the exception - something to feel good about dear.

ok - Time to go - gotta goto ebay and snag up cheap but good camping gear for our ecovillage trek this summer!!!
I hear these folks like to play frisbee and poop in buckets hahah...
we shall see.
Havent they heard of the human humus machine???
I will be the first eco villager on my block with a crapper that doesnt need to be dumped once a week!! Thats what I am talking about babee yeah!!

<[END] matrix]rage against the machine]wake up]music.mp3]>

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'T')hen he explained to me that his skills will be of no use in post-oil world, he knows nothing about cultivations or wells or wind energy or archery or raising poultry.

[kochevnik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'W')hile my husband is more or less convinced ...

[BlisteredWhippet]

When I talk to guy friends about the End of The World, I'm especially sensitive to those who have careers, but especially families and children. For one thing, no matter how useful or pertinent the information, they are going to block it psychologically on some level. You are basically subcommunicating to him that his life's work is worthless; that his children have no future.

I think you should ask yourself what kind of response you want him to have, and then tailor your discussion with him with that goal in mind. Point out to him the things he can do to protect his investments in career, family, and children. Otherwise, Peak Oil is just the Boogeyman for grown-ups.

When a man wants to make love to a woman on Valentine's Day, he tries to push all the right buttons and none of the wrong ones. When a woman wants to make a point to a man, the wrong buttons are the ones that tell him that his sacrifices and efforts are completely in vain.

Once he gets the message that he is useful, he will no longer be in denial.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'O')nce he gets the message that he is useful, he will no longer be in denial.

[katkinkate]

I'm not in denial, but I'm definately useless, at least according to the most commonly-believed standards of use. I have no practical skills, I am very fat and unfit, I have no land or access to land to grow anything. I am also alone, with all my family living at great distances and no real close friends at the moment and I don't have enough money or influence to get others to do the work of preparing for me. If we have a major crash/disaster of any kind, I'd probably be in big trouble.

Am I worried? Not really. Kay sera sera. I figure I've got enough excess kilojoules to subsidy my life for at least a year of low rations/low activity life. If I need to to much exercise over what I do now, I could survive maybe a half a year with enough food to provide the basic vitamin/minerals and a little bit of protein. Or a few months or so of no food at all, as long as I don't do anything much.

Although I really doubt it will come to that. I'm more inclined to envision a slower collapse over years and I'm sure a few years of tight/intermittant rations (with less availability of chocolate from Europe and fruits and nuts from around the world and not so much deepfried junk food) and more walking to work instead of bussing will fix the fat problem anyway, if I don't drop of heart failure before then.

[Barbara]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'W')hile my husband is more or less convinced ...

[bochen787]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'S')ometimes I guess what kind of monsters our male counterparts host in their heads.

While my husband is more or less convinced, I'm having hard time to convince my brother (wife and two kids-need to be convinced!). On Sunday I tried for the last time, answering to all his absurd rebuttals. At the end of an hour discussion, he suddenly shouted on my face "I don't want to give up to Peak Oil consequences... because I'm USELESS!"

I stared at him like he's a mad. Then he explained to me that his skills will be of no use in post-oil world, he knows nothing about cultivations or wells or wind energy or archery or raising poultry. He's a 21st century man so he thinks he will sit and wait for the end if TSHTF, since there's nothing else he can do. He said he's 40, no time and no wish to learn something from the beginning, and about his family (which he loves wholeheartedly) well, they'll follow the destiny. Then he stated he *decided* not to believe PO because of this.

I swear my brother is of normal intelligence LOL, not a Forrest Gump! And also, he's in construction field: he knows of carpentry, construction, water pipes, roofs, chimneys, anything about constructing and he loves to supervise his artisans while working with their hands! I think he's better skilled than 80% of population. Only he doesn't even knows that.

Now I'm guessing: how many people are in denial JUST because they secretly think they aren't fit for survival?

[0mar]

Learn to shoot a rifle, that's all the skills you'll need!

[diogenes]

There will be no instant collapse. It is a fantasy. People who consider themselves well suited for a postcivilization existence hope for it, wish for it----perhaps it eases their fears. No, we will have no sudden reversion to the stone age. There are wars to get through first, glorious resource wars and wars of fading nationalism. Any man between fifteen and fifty will be useful, then. Worry about the rest afterwards.

[ubercynicmeister]

Pardon my levity on the matter, but oddly, no-one has challenged this one. Most of the people here seem to be male, thus is the male of the species not better prepared than the female? In no way can numbers be used to actually determine the preparedness (or otherwise) of a person, yet we allow such statements as "the male monster" to pass unremarked upon.

One assumes one proves one's non-monstrosity by preparing for Peak Oil? (at least, reading between the lines of the original postingone guesses that is what the poster implies....one has to be careful here, though, and be fair...mebbe it was just one of those statements made in haste?)

If the males are monsters then why is it so many here are "preparing" to face Peak Oil? If the only definition of a monstrous male is the lack of Peak Oil preparedness then the males here (myself included) are most definitely NOT monsters. Surely there is more to non-mostrosity than that?

In any case - think about the conditions in the Nazi concentration camps, conditions likely to be repeated if Peak Oil becomes Peak Energy, just without guard towers or formal extermination policies. Persons who survived did so by learning. They learnt how to keep out of the way - as best as conditions allowed - they learnt how to cope, and as they said afterewards: humans can get used to anything.

Sure it wasn't pleasant, it wasn't anything but horrible, but survive some did. Oh, and the female concentration camp guards were much more cruel than their male counterparts, with far fewer qualms of conscience on the female's behalf than the males. But of course, being females, they cannot be monsters, now, can they? So, I wonder what they were?