[mgibbons19]

Is there not a certain irony that this dude lives in Texas?

Are you not paying taxes as well?

Are you not eating produce shipped on trucks through sprawlified cities?

There are times I am not proud of my country, but really, put your money where your mouth is. Why are you still living in this country suporting its continued existence?

[bochen787]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'H')ere is a good example of Muslim WRATH.

well....

[bochen787]

By the way Specop, your argument that just because I live here in America I should shut up and stop complaining is [b]hypocritical.

Especially since American is a renegade colony. And its was founded on the principle of what I am exercising right now.

again, your argument that just because I live here in America I should shut up and stop complaining is [b]hypocritical.

When the Chinese government tells its own people the same thing, somehow the US WHEEL OF HYPOCRISY will intervene and starting bitching at Hu for not giving enough 'civil right' to the Chinese people.

Since when did the US GOV care about Chinese people? Last time I checked they very bitched about the trade imbalance and China’s growing oil demands. If they [US] are caring they sure as hell aren’t showing it by their actions.


HYPOCRITES ALL OF YOU!

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bochen787', '
')

If ANYONE on this entire forum can prove my above statement WRONG. I will go and SHUT UP FOREVER!

Takers Anyone????

[bochen787]

In anticipation of what you will write Specop_007, (since you seem to like the doctrine of pre-emptive strike so much),

I [bochen787] said earlier:
The Native Americans was too slow to learn the lesson, Iraq was too dumb to learn the lesson. Lets hope Iran does a pre-emptive strike FIRST this time and give Shrub a taste of his own medicine!!!

In response you [Specop_007] said earlier: "As for breaking rules, well when a madman flat out says he wants to develop nuclear weapons and use them to destroy his enemies, your damned right I support preemptive strikes."

AND

you [Specop_007] said earlier: "If a guy said "I'm going to kill you" and then went to a gunshop would you be worried?
Thats exactly what’s happening here. Iran has said they will kill us, and they are developing the weapons to do so."



so let me now just ask you,


WHERE IS YOUR LOGIC IN THAT??

You seem to agree with the doctrine of pre-emptive strike correct? You
say that if you know your enemy will attack you anyway, that it is your
duty and obligation to attack them first to prevent damage to yourself.

Follow me?

So when I said in my first post that "Lets hope Iran does a pre-emptive strike FIRST this time and give Shrub a taste of his own medicine!!!" I am simply praticing YOUR DOCTRINE OF PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE. If an enemy [the US in this case], will attack you anyway, (like how America will attack Iran, and how US with its proven track record DID attack Iraq) it is then Iran's duty and obligation to pre-emptive the pre-emptive strike. America has proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN that is PRACTICES THE DOCTRINE OF STRIKING FIRST, so why the hell should other nations not do the same? If I know a bully in my neighboorhood already took out 5 of my neighboors why the hell should I not practice what he does and take HIM out first?

So if you [US] can do it, why can no other country practice the same thing?

Like Bin Laden said: Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.



What say you to this???

Specop you have no ground.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bochen787', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'I') got nothin' for this conversation....

But the Osama pic cracks me up everytime. I keep imaging it's the real Slim Shad... I mean Bin Laden. Kills me.

G

[PrairieMule]

[quote="bochen787"]

So when I said in my first post that "Lets hope Iran does a pre-emptive strike FIRST this time and give Shrub a taste of his own medicine!!!" I am simply praticing YOUR DOCTRINE OF PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE. If an enemy [the US in this case], will attack you anyway, (like how America will attack Iran, and how US with its proven track record DID attack Iraq) it is then Iran's duty and obligation to pre-emptive the pre-emptive strike. America has proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN that is PRACTICES THE DOCTRINE OF STRIKING FIRST, so why the hell should other nations not do the same? If I know a bully in my neighboorhood already took out 5 of my neighboors why the hell should I not practice what he does and take HIM out first?

So if you [US] can do it, why can no other country practice the same thing?

[quote]

Well I think Iranians have proven themselves to have fewer checks and balances than our flawed but blessed America. For example when a Prominent Religious figure calls for the assasination of Hugo Chavez the majority of Americans and American Christians have the liberty to respond "Shut up Pat!"- thus even religon has it's checks and balances. No one is dragged out into the street and subjected to a muslim form of Agape. When however a ruling cleric or ruler of Iran suggests they should Assasinate a country (Israel) with a Nuclear weapon we cannot blow it off. Furthermore I'll gamble the Iranians have less freedom to disagree without physical persecution under a muslim controlled country.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bochen787', 'I')n anticipation of what you will write Specop_007, (since you seem to like the doctrine of pre-emptive strike so much),

I [bochen787] said earlier:
The Native Americans was too slow to learn the lesson, Iraq was too dumb to learn the lesson. Lets hope Iran does a pre-emptive strike FIRST this time and give Shrub a taste of his own medicine!!!

In response you [Specop_007] said earlier: "As for breaking rules, well when a madman flat out says he wants to develop nuclear weapons and use them to destroy his enemies, your damned right I support preemptive strikes."

AND

you [Specop_007] said earlier: "If a guy said "I'm going to kill you" and then went to a gunshop would you be worried?
Thats exactly what’s happening here. Iran has said they will kill us, and they are developing the weapons to do so."



so let me now just ask you,


WHERE IS YOUR LOGIC IN THAT??

You seem to agree with the doctrine of pre-emptive strike correct? You
say that if you know your enemy will attack you anyway, that it is your
duty and obligation to attack them first to prevent damage to yourself.

Follow me?

So when I said in my first post that "Lets hope Iran does a pre-emptive strike FIRST this time and give Shrub a taste of his own medicine!!!" I am simply praticing YOUR DOCTRINE OF PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE. If an enemy [the US in this case], will attack you anyway, (like how America will attack Iran, and how US with its proven track record DID attack Iraq) it is then Iran's duty and obligation to pre-emptive the pre-emptive strike. America has proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN that is PRACTICES THE DOCTRINE OF STRIKING FIRST, so why the hell should other nations not do the same? If I know a bully in my neighboorhood already took out 5 of my neighboors why the hell should I not practice what he does and take HIM out first?

So if you [US] can do it, why can no other country practice the same thing?

Like Bin Laden said: Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.



What say you to this???

Specop you have no ground.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bochen787', 'B')y the way Specop, your argument that just because I live here in America I should shut up and stop complaining is [b]hypocritical.

Especially since American is a renegade colony. And its was founded on the principle of what I am exercising right now.

again, your argument that just because I live here in America I should shut up and stop complaining is [b]hypocritical.

When the Chinese government tells its own people the same thing, somehow the US WHEEL OF HYPOCRISY will intervene and starting bitching at Hu for not giving enough 'civil right' to the Chinese people.

Since when did the US GOV care about Chinese people? Last time I checked they very bitched about the trade imbalance and China’s growing oil demands. If they [US] are caring they sure as hell aren’t showing it by their actions.


HYPOCRITES ALL OF YOU!

[bochen787]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'W')e have had the means to turn Iran into a glowing parking lot for the past 50 years and we havent.

[gary_malcolm]

The text below was a comment by "Den Vandron" to a post made at the site TPMCafe on January 14, 2006.


On the topic about an inevitable conflict with Iran:

Speaking as a Canadian who is fond of judicious language, I feel that this situation deserves careful and measured thought. So let me just open with:
Is your entire f*cking country on crack??? Are all you Americans out of your cotton picking minds??? Are you completely freaking delusional? Homicidal? Psychotic? Have you lost any shred of a moral compass? WHAT IN THE NAME OF JESUS H. CHRIST ON A CRUTCH IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

Let me offer up one small datum which may completely change the equation for you: According to the CIA (If they have any credibility left.) Iran is at least five years away from a nuclear weapon.

Five years.

Five years is time for diplomacy to accomplish a hell of a lot.

I would also point out that the Atomic Energy Commission, various other international bodies and other inspections have essentially found no sign that Iran is even working on a nuclear weapon.

The only actual evidence that Iran has anything close to nuclear weapons technology is blueprints *that the CIA gave to them!*

Have you all forgotten that the evidence on Iraq was spectacularly wrong? Have you all ignored the fact that it was fabricated? Why then are we going down the exact same road of stage managed, fabricated pseudo-evidence and wild-ass hysteria?

What is wrong with you people?

This entire crisis has been manufactured, and has been years in the making.

Stop and think back five years. What did we have five years ago? A moderate reformist Iranian government making overtures to the United States, rebuilding its relationship with Europe, liberalizing its society, and modernizing its economy.

Post 9/11 vigil in Iran. 9/11 comes along, the Iranians are overflowing with sympathy. Mass candlelit vigils are held in Tehran. Iran offers aid and cooperation.

Iran hates the Taliban who have executed Iranian diplomats and massacred Afghan Shiites. Iran hates Saddam Hussein. Iran hates Al Qaeda which is a Sunni Fundamentalist organization which declares Shiites infidels and subhuman.

Iran shares its intelligence with America - they even arrested Taliban members and handed them over to US custody.

So we've got the Iranian spring; things are finally going to sort out.

And what happens? The Bush administration rebuffs every Iranian overture and does its best to instigate a cold war. Afghanistan is invaded, and suddenly, the Iranians are looking at American troops and allies on their eastern border. Then Iraq is invaded, and American troops and allies on their western border. Then bases and treaties in Uzbekistan, and whoops, there's more American troops and allies on the northern border. The Persian Gulf is filled with American warships and carrier fleets.

Now the Iranians are surrounded. And the tough talk is constant. Iran is part of the 'Axis of Evil' and Americans tell each other "Baghdad, humph, real men go to Tehran." Essentially, America has been threatening military action against Iran for the last five years, and has surrounded the country on every side with troops, bases and allies.

American aircraft invade Iranian airspace regularly, American special forces undertake operations inside Iran and Americans regularly accuse Iranians of interference in Iraq.

Dick Cheney pontificates about Israel bombing Iran *after he has just handed over to Israel the long range bombers and bunker busting bombs* required to do the job.

Meanwhile, the United States undertakes economic warfare against Iran, interfering with its business dealings with third party countries, trying to scuttle a pipeline deal with India, and it goes on and on. The hysteria about the Iranians nuclear program is just more of the same.

Now how in God's Bloody Name do you think the Iranians are going to respond to that. Should they concede the nuclear program, abandon their pipeline project? If so, its not going to do them any good. America will just seek more concessions. Each surrender will be met by new demands. This isn't hard to figure out. It's exactly what Bush did with Iraq.

Perhaps overtures, good will gestures, trying to act like a peaceful nation. Did all those things, doesn't matter. The Bush administration is still on a collision course.

So, the Mullahs are concerned that they're faced with a homicidal crazy state, the Iranian people are scared. When people are scared and faced with an aggressive warmongering power which keeps threatening to attack them, continually trespasses on its borders and is undertaking economic warfare... who the hell are they going to elect? Ahminajad may be a crazy bastard, but you assholes, you utter assholes did every thing you could to elect him short of donating 50,000 Diebold machines and mailing his party the trapdoor codes.

So, having pursued a psychotically aggressive course, you've backed Iran into a corner, and engineered a regime which refuses to back further.

And *you* are the victims in all this? *You* are the ones under threat? It's *self defense*????

And of course, you goofily believe that you can just bomb or nuke Iran with impunity?

Holy microeconomic theory batman! Holy Microeconomic Theory Batman! Iran's nuclear facilities are distributed across the country and in hardened sites near population centers. So any strike that cripples a significant portion of Iran's nuclear capacity will inevitably be so large and kill so many people that its going to be tantamount to inviting full scale war.

Think about that. Iran is 70 million people, an area five times the size of Iraq, not disemboweled by 12 years of sanctions and air raids. On the other side of the coin, America's ground army is busted and tied down in Iraq. There's no troops to throw at a major Iranian military force, so you have to hope that bombing will do the trick. The occupation forces in Iraq are in occupation and not territorial defense mode. And Iraq is 65% Shiites who are probably not going to be happy that you're blowing up their brother Shiites.

Meanwhile, the Strait of Hormuz is so narrow that sinking one supertanker will block it indefinitely, and Iran borders the strait on three sides. Block Hormuz and any naval groups inside the Persian Gulf are trapped there. Any naval groups outside the Persian Gulf are trapped outside. Forget about any oil coming out of the Persian Gulf from Iraq, Kuwait, Quatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia or the UAE. Think about what that does to the price of oil, and to the world economy. Think about what that does to dependent countries like Japan, India, China and Europe.

In short its so appallingly stupid and colossally risky, that I can see why your idiots in charge might consider using nuclear weapons. But throw a few nukes around and see how the rest of the world reacts? Every dirt-wad country is going to be mortgaging the Presidential palace to get its own nuclear deterrent from Pakistan or North Korea. How do you feel about the Indonesian Bomb, the Malaysian Bomb, the Thai Bomb, the Myanmar Bomb, the Algerian Bomb, the Saudi Bomb, the Egyptian Bomb, the Brazilian Bomb, the Argentine Bomb, the Venezuelan Bomb, the Cuban Bomb, the Japanese Bomb, the Canadian frigging Bomb. You are no longer trustworthy. North Korea, always borderline psychotic is going to be mondo difficult to deal with. You've just guaranteed yourself a full fledged nuclear arms race, balls to the wall with both Russia and China, and quite possibly Europe.

And of course there's no guarantee that the rest of the world will allow this. Do you want an armed standoff with the Russians. Suppose they 'loan' their finest interceptor jets, pilots and radar systems to the Iranians... Do you want to meet *that* on a bombing raid? And if you do meet *that* what are you going to do when half your planes are blasted out of the skies conducting an illegal raid on civilian populations in a foreign country? Cry? Send a harsh note?

Launch a first strike?

World goes boom. What happens if the Chinese decide to hold Taiwan and South Korea hostage? What do you do? Back off Iran or sell out East Asia?

Hell, in that kind of standoff, someone sneezes and its not going to matter who launched a first strike.

Or would you like an economic standoff, say with Europe, or with Japan and China. Suppose that the Europeans or Chinese decide "screw the worldwide depression, you assholes are just too dangerous to have around." Trillions of dollars get dumped on the market, loans get called in, the bottom drops out of your dollar, its thousand per cent inflation and no manufacturing base and your own trade embargoes. So much for America.

I mean, its morally wrong, its stupid on every level. And yet here you are discussing why maybe you should get out in front of the Republicans on this, or planning your surrender to Bush. Why are you even discussing this?

What is wrong with America?

[bochen787]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'N')ow how in God's Bloody Name do you think the Iranians are going to respond to that. Should they concede the nuclear program, abandon their pipeline project? If so, its not going to do them any good. America will just seek more concessions. Each surrender will be met by new demands. This isn't hard to figure out. It's exactly what Bush did with Iraq.

[PenultimateManStanding]

You guys can high-five each other's anti-american diatribes all you like, it's a free country. America is about making money and capitalism. Some say hooray, some boo, that's the way it is; or will be until it can't anymore. You may cheer if it goes down, that doesn't matter. It isn't going to be pretty in any country anywhere when the gas supplies scarcify.

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou guys can high-five each other's anti-american diatribes all you like, it's a free country. America is about making money and capitalism. Some say hooray, some boo, that's the way it is; or will be until it can't anymore. You may cheer if it goes down, that doesn't matter. It isn't going to be pretty in any country anywhere when the gas supplies scarcify.

[PenultimateManStanding]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Not talking about your elevated plain of existence, G, rather I'm just stating the aggregate truth. damn it but you are the blowhard manonthemarch selfrighteous blatherbrain of this forum that's for sure. jeez.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bochen787', '
')
Holy Cow, gary_malcolm that was one long as post. Maybe you should try highlighting the important aspects since Specop still doesn't have his glasses on and he'll just rant off into a million directions again.