[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he method Humphry describes is painless and nearly foolproof, and is the method I will use when my time comes.

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut please don't "do it" until you are terminally ill or dying of starvation, AE.

[Graeme]

AmericanEmpire, I started this thread because I thought that other people may benefit when they undertsood why individuals commit suicide. In other words, they could help when others are feeling depressed and isolated. I was not my intention to promote suicide.

I have to say they there are some here who are grossly irresponsible in promoting only a doomer scenario as an outcome to peak oil. There are other possible futures. The one that actually occurs depends partly on the our collective desire to overcome the difficulties that lie ahead. There are many people who are trying to do just that right now.

So find the community you are looking for and help others then you will have a sense of belonging. Really you only need just one other person to have a close relationship with and feelings of isolation will disappear. If there is a professional psychologist in this group, I hope that they can add some comments here too.

[crapattack]

AE, I think community is so important. I know you are working on it and some land too and you are probably feeling a bit down it's not happening fast enough. Perhaps if you set some smaller goals that are toward the big goal, when you accomplish these you can feel great. This forum is a community, and even though it's online perhaps you will meet people here you can form a community with. Perhaps we should start a poll asking if there is interest in a peakers meeting....what do you all think? Have you checked out the intentional community links? There are several intentional communities across NA that do accept members, let's see... ah, here it is http://directory.ic.org/
Hopefully that's a bit of a help, and lets keep talking. I'm not a professional psychologist, but I did get a fair bit of training in it, and I can say that your longing for place is one of the most basic and essential human needs.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'A')mericanEmpire, I started this thread because I thought that other people may benefit when they undertsood why individuals commit suicide. In other words, they could help when others are feeling depressed and isolated. I was not my intention to promote suicide.

I have to say they there are some here who are grossly irresponsible in promoting only a doomer scenario as an outcome to peak oil. There are other possible futures. The one that actually occurs depends partly on the our collective desire to overcome the difficulties that lie ahead. There are many people who are trying to do just that right now.

[crow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') view suicide as one of the individual's most important rights. Everyone should have a carefully thought-out "final exit" plan in place.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crow', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') view suicide as one of the individual's most important rights. Everyone should have a carefully thought-out "final exit" plan in place.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crow', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') view suicide as one of the individual's most important rights. Everyone should have a carefully thought-out "final exit" plan in place.

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')aturally, therefore, our sick society has made it extremely difficult to obtain barbiturates for this purpose.

[crow]

So let me get this right:

Basically, if things get too hard, or too scary for all of you, you're all basically going to throw in the towel in the easiest way possible?

And you say that you are 'survivors'? the way I see it you're losers and cowards waiting for the proper moment to admit defeat.

[crapattack]

Hey now Crow, pull in the wee talons, I never said I was going to... in fact, I distinctly said I wasn't and I would go down fighting. As for others choices... well the saying goes, until you walk a mile in another's shoes you have no right to judge them.

[crow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'H')ey now Crow, pull in the wee talons, I never said I was going to... in fact, I distinctly said I wasn't and I would go down fighting. As for others choices... well the saying goes, until you walk a mile in another's shoes you have no right to judge them.

[Heineken]

Crow, if you had gone back and read the earlier posts, you would see that the position of those of us who agree on this matter (including American Empire) is that suicide is a last option only, ideally to be used only after you've fought the good fight and lost. Hell, even the macho space warriors in "Aliens" turned to suicide when they were trapped in the tunnel with the monsters bearing inescapably down on them.

[crow]

Why does it not surprise me that you get your morality from Hollywood?

Suicide is a coward's option if it is an option at all.

[Heineken]

A cheap shot, crow. Well, if my morality comes from Hollywood, yours must come from the hard little beak of George Bush.

[crapattack]

I'm not surprised at Crow, our Judeo-Christian culture is strongly against the notion of suicide. We have a strong streak of the "rugged individualist" in North America, and we're supposed to tough it out and be all macho under any circumstance. In Canada suicide is even illegal - I've always got a kick out of that. Calling strangers online cowards is easy. If you have very limited life experience it's almost impossible to empathise with others. While I don't agree we should be encouraging people to make that choice, in some situations I can see suicide as very brave and if there wasn't a lot of "you'll go to hell" baggage around it more folks would choose it as an alternative to a slow painful death.

[Heineken]

Thanks, crapattack. Suicide can certainly be a brave act when it is done to spare loved ones from financial ruin and years of terrible emotional attrition, as in the case of Alzheimer's or AIDS. This applies particularly when there is no health insurance.

I see nothing cowardly about avoiding the pain and humiliation and cost of terminal illness. It's a rational decision and one that was celebrated by some of the greatest civilizations of all time, among which I do not count our own.

[crow]

And where is the error in teaching to fight rather than give up? Have you ever looked at the reasoning and principals that lead Judeo-Christians to the conclusion that life is worth fighting for?

Please give an example of how suicide can be brave?

If I figth my illness to the end, based on a conscious choice, and my kin who suffers the same illness commits suicide; who is truly braver?


That 'going to hell' over suicide is a childish notion at best and one that is seldomly taught these days. Catholic cemetaries for example, will allow a suicide victim to be burried in 'communion with their church'.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crow', 'A')nd where is the error in teaching to fight rather than give up? Have you ever looked at the reasoning and principals that lead Judeo-Christians to the conclusion that life is worth fighting for?

Please give an example of how suicide can be brave?

If I figth my illness to the end, based on a conscious choice, and my kin who suffers the same illness commits suicide; who is truly braver?


That 'going to hell' over suicide is a childish notion at best and one that is seldomly taught these days. Catholic cemetaries for example, will allow a suicide victim to be burried in 'communion with their church'.

[crow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
[snip]

Respecting the dignity of the individual, beats turning the beauty and meaning of life into a twisted form of fetish worship.