[Wildwell]

I mention it to provide some context for the extraordinary revelations published by the Guardian last week. Felicity Lawrence used the Freedom of Information Act to discover who has been receiving the European Union’s farm subsidies(2). The biggest beneficiaries, she found, were not farmers but food manufacturers. In 2003 and 2004, the sugar company Tate and Lyle was given £227m of taxpayers’ money. Nestle was paid by you and me to export milk: I wouldn’t be surprised if that includes its ever-popular sales of powdered milk to the third world. Gate Gourmet, the airline catering company, took half a million pounds from us for the little sachets of milk and sugar it puts on passengers’ food trays: because they leave British airspace, they qualify for export subsidies. KLM received a farm subsidy for “rural restructuring”: turning part of the Dutch countryside into a runway. GlaxoSmithKline, Boots, Eton College, Heineken, Grolsch, Shell and the tobacco company Philip Morris have been given millions of pounds of farm subsidies, and at least one of them (Eton) doesn’t even know why.

There is nothing unusual about these handouts for private companies. In his book Peverse Subsidies, published in 2001, Professor Norman Myers estimates that when you add the direct payments US corporations receive to the wider costs they oblige society to carry, you come up with a figure of $2.6 trillion, or roughly five times as much as the profits they make(8). As well as the $362 billion the OECD countries were paying for farming when his book was published (or rather, as we have seen, for activities masquerading as farming) they were shelling out some $71 billion on fossil fuels and nuclear power and a staggering $1.1 trillion on road transport. Worldwide, governments pay companies $25bn a year to destroy the earth’s fisheries, and $14bn to wreck our forests.

The Energy Policy Bill the Bush administration drove through Congress this summer handed a further $2.9bn to the coal industry, $4.3bn to nuclear power and $1.5bn to oil and gas firms(9). According to the Democratic congressman Henry Waxman, the oil subsidy “was mysteriously inserted in the final energy legislation after the legislation was closed to further amendment … Obviously, it would be a serious abuse to secretly slip [in] such a costly and controversial provision”(10). Most of the money, he discovered, would be administered by “a private consortium located in the district of Majority Leader Tom DeLay … The leading contender for this contract appears to be the Research Partnership to Secure Energy for America consortium” whose board members include Marathon Oil and our old friend Halliburton. “There is no conceivable rationale for this extraordinary largesse. The oil and gas industry is reporting record income and profits … the net income of the top oil companies will total $230 billion in 2005.” It would be tempting to hold Bush responsible for this, but that would be only half right. The oil firms were scooping up taxpayers’ money long before they put their robot in the White House: Norman Myers reports that between 1993 and mid-1996, “American oil and gas companies gave $10.3 million to political campaigns and received tax breaks worth $4 billion.”

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12 ... ging-bowl/

[Lokutus]

Why do you hate capitalism?[sup]TM[/sup]



Seriously, good point. The hypocrisy of big business is unbeliebale.

Have you see The Corporation? (http://1984videos.com)

[The_Toecutter]

Big Business is the real welfare queen. And she doesn't drive a beat up Cadillac as Reagan era myth would have you believe. She instead flies on a learjet at taxpayer expense, usually has no children, never has been poor, and never had to do any real work even obe day in her life.

[Liamj]

Yup, Susan George was writing about this thirty years ago, gosh how times have changed (not). RightThinks idea of good government - bend over, wallet on the table.
Free market capitalism - interesting idea, somebody should try it some time.

[Wildwell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', 'W')hy do you hate capitalism?[sup]TM[/sup]



Seriously, good point. The hypocrisy of big business is unbeliebale.

Have you see The Corporation? (http://1984videos.com)

[Specop_007]

Let me be quite upfront when I say this.
You get rid of EIC, Welfare, SS, Food stamps, I'm-a-lazy-ghetto-bag-give-me-money and then I'll start worrying about what the business's are doing.

EVERYONE is out to get their little peice of the pie. The only one truly getting screwed is you and me...ie....the middle class. The poor get governmnet cheese (Well, and Lokutus), the business's get tax breaks.
Its the middle class and up that are getting screwed.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'L')et me be quite upfront when I say this.
You get rid of EIC, Welfare, SS, Food stamps, I'm-a-lazy-ghetto-bag-give-me-money and then I'll start worrying about what the business's are doing.

EVERYONE is out to get their little peice of the pie. The only one truly getting screwed is you and me...ie....the middle class. The poor get governmnet cheese (Well, and Lokutus), the business's get tax breaks.
Its the middle class and up that are getting screwed.

[emersonbiggins]

Just in case you're up for some light reading, spec...
[web]http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n4_v27/ai_16827468[/web]

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'L')et me be quite upfront when I say this.
You get rid of EIC, Welfare, SS, Food stamps, I'm-a-lazy-ghetto-bag-give-me-money and then I'll start worrying about what the business's are doing.

EVERYONE is out to get their little peice of the pie. The only one truly getting screwed is you and me...ie....the middle class. The poor get governmnet cheese (Well, and Lokutus), the business's get tax breaks.
Its the middle class and up that are getting screwed.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Hmmm. Not sure what to say on this.
On one hand, yes the Middle CLass does recieve some form of entitlements. I certainly cant deny that. Hell, *I* get some "entitlements" as well.
But the defining difference is how much? Yes, I get a check made out to me from the .gov. But, I sure as hell pay more in then I get back. Thats really the big difference. Middle Class Americans are paying in X and getting back Y, and X > Y. Lower class are paying X and getting Y and its usually X < Y.

[foodnotlawns]

Well, the System is set up so that it's harder and harder to make an honest living.

The middle class is subsidized to the gills to exist in a wasteful golden cage. Everybody owning cars and driving to work isn't for our benefit, it's for their benefit. Problem is, most people are fools and worship their cars (worship their chains).

I think people who want to farm with hand tools should be provided land and tax abatements to produce low input food. Just making enough food to feed another 5 people is a worthwhile job.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Hmmm. Not sure what to say on this.
On one hand, yes the Middle CLass does recieve some form of entitlements. I certainly cant deny that. Hell, *I* get some "entitlements" as well.
But the defining difference is how much? Yes, I get a check made out to me from the .gov. But, I sure as hell pay more in then I get back. Thats really the big difference. Middle Class Americans are paying in X and getting back Y, and X > Y. Lower class are paying X and getting Y and its usually X < Y.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')1) I'd happily give up my "entitlements" if it meant everyone else lost theirs.

2) I dont plan on getting SS. If I am eligible, and if I do get it, its just icing on the cake. But why shouldnt I get my money that I paid into the system? Personally, I wish they'd shitcan SS altogether and let us keep our money, or at the very least choose what happens with it (Read: Private accounts)

3) "Those of us under 30"?? Just how old do you think I am?? Got news for ya slugger, I fall into that group! So, I suppose I could complain about having to bankroll both my SS and your SS couldnt I.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')1) I'd happily give up my "entitlements" if it meant everyone else lost theirs.

2) I dont plan on getting SS. If I am eligible, and if I do get it, its just icing on the cake. But why shouldnt I get my money that I paid into the system? Personally, I wish they'd shitcan SS altogether and let us keep our money, or at the very least choose what happens with it (Read: Private accounts)

3) "Those of us under 30"?? Just how old do you think I am?? Got news for ya slugger, I fall into that group! So, I suppose I could complain about having to bankroll both my SS and your SS couldnt I.

[emersonbiggins]

Problem is, if PO really is about to make an impact, the stock market is about as bad a place for retirement money to be in anyways. Might as well have a good spread on commodities and say your prayers. That's why I'm reluctant to fund my 401k - hell, don't let me lie to you, even start a 401k.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'P')roblem is, if PO really is about to make an impact, the stock market is about as bad a place for retirement money to be in anyways. Might as well have a good spread on commodities and say your prayers. That's why I'm reluctant to fund my 401k - hell, don't let me lie to you, even start a 401k.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'P')roblem is, if PO really is about to make an impact, the stock market is about as bad a place for retirement money to be in anyways. Might as well have a good spread on commodities and say your prayers. That's why I'm reluctant to fund my 401k - hell, don't let me lie to you, even start a 401k.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')Well, I think the next 4 or 5 months or so are going to be pretty telling. It's not that I'm not planning on funding some sort of retirement plan, but I'm only 23 right now. And, yes, I know about compound interest. I'm planning on getting with the program as I head into grad school this fall. My life is on hiatus right now. Pouring $$$ into credit cards right now.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')
Whatchya gonna major in?

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou get rid of EIC, Welfare, SS, Food stamps, I'm-a-lazy-ghetto-bag-give-me-money and then I'll start worrying about what the business's are doing.