[airstrip1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', 'E')urope is in the midst of a peaceful takeover by Islam.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('airstrip1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', 'E')urope is in the midst of a peaceful takeover by Islam.

[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'R')dSnt,

There are a few things that really puzzle me about the way that the Neo-Cons have prosecuted this whole Iraq thing. First of all, why didn't they use a proxy instead of so totally placing the geo-political future of the US on the line? If a proxy had failed then the US could simply have withdrawn support when things got too dicey. As it stands now, if a proxy had managed to get this far the US would be able to claim total victory and risk nothing more.

I reckon the only proxy they wanted to back was the only proxy they couldn't back. I think they wanted to back the Iraqi Sunnis, the natural ally to the US's non-Jewish state best friend in the region - Saudi Arabia. They were prevented from engaging the Sunnis, however, until Saddam could be gotten out of the picture. Who can say for sure, but if I am right there will be some changes in Iraq politically and civil war wise after Saddam is executed.

Secondly, why haven't the Republicans launched a massive effort over here to counter possible failure? Yes, they are in the process of decapitating the dollar, but that by itself isn't enough. There needs to be a major infrastructure shakeup that involves high-speed rail, higher fleet fuel efficiency, many billions on advances in electricity generation and solar panel efficiency to name only a few. Two billion over some number of years for hydrogen fuel cell research just isn't going to cut it.

If the Neo-Cons took the necessary steps to prepare then a loss, even if it were calamitous, might not imperil everything. Some people read sinister motives into this lack of preparation. I read stupidity.

[gg3]

Torjus-

"spoiled soldiers"...? BULLSHIT.

A close friend of mine in the Army wrote during the holidays to let me know that a camp full of Marines he knows of, is presently subsisting on one meal a day, not enough water to drink, no clean clothes, no showers.

And a day or two ago I read a news story saying basically the same thing. Soldiers getting one cold hot-dog (that's an Americanized type of German sausage) per day to eat.

If you bothered to read the news, you'd see that our soldiers also do not have adequate body armor, do not have adequate vehicle armor, have shortages of ammunition, and so on.

And while it may be true that some of our high-tech equipment guzzles fuel (mostly diesel), the fact is that our soldiers are no more or less spoiled than your own.

Our Commander-in-Chief (President Bush) is spoiled. Not our soldiers. Put the responsibility in the right place. An apology would be nice too.

[gg3]

Daryl-

The US public may not understand geopolitics, but they can be taught.

The US public sure as hell does understand when they're being lied to, and that lesson sticks pretty deep too, especially when sons and daughters are dying as a result.

So at present we have taken down a regime that, while it was certainly one of the world's most foul dictatorships, was already militarily contained and no threat to us.

And we have replaced it with a Balkanized theocratic regime that is in bed with our sworn enemies in Iran. And we have put ourselves in a position where we cannot respond effectively to a real threat coming from a real enemy.

That is the real tragedy of this whole affair. The hard-liners in Iran have played us like a fiddle (at first via their man Chalabi and now directly), and the Bush Admin swallowed it whole. (Whether or not Clinton inhaled, at least Monica didn't swallow!)

The Administration has snatched defeat in Iraq from the jaws of victory in Afghanistan, and created a festering hornets' nest of a terrorist training camp along the way, and handed the whole thing over to our enemies on a silver platter.

It's not for nothing that General Colin Powell called the neocons "f---ing crazies." And it's not for nothing that General Odom (who was also Director of NSA) called this the biggest strategic blunder in American history.

I swear to God there ought to be a Constitutional amendment to make it possible to remove a President from his role as C-in-C on the grounds of military incompetence, and replace him with someone capable.

[gg3]

Itch, my friend-

Those mercs are a real warrior's nightmare come true. For example...

Our soldiers are issued 30 rounds of ammo to carry on their person at all times when on base, in case of an attack against the base.

The mercs on the other hand, are issued THREE HUNDRED ROUNDS on base. Ten times the ammo, presumably to go along with ten times the pay.

(You already know this but for those who don't...) Ammo in a war zone = the measure of life or death for you and your friends.

The officers & enlisted are professionally polite to the mercs, and may even become friends under fire.

But if you want to talk about demoralization, ask any member of our armed forces how it feels to know that the mercs get 10x the ammo they do in the same situation.

Just one more example of the kind of incompetence for which Bush should be sent back to the Texas Air National Guard to complete his training, and let a real warrior like Colin Powell run the war.

(Okay, I'm now late for a PO meeting because I got caught up in this topic... me go now, see y'all later...)

[The_Virginian]

GG3,

Consider that frontline soldiers almost always get shafted, while those outside of the combat zone eat up the recources, and make the army look by by averaging the support numbers that are wheigted in their favor.


And as far as one meal a day for Soldiers far from home, I have heard the and read the same as well.

It's complete Crap that our "privatized" supply system has provided the average soldier. MRE's are annother long term eating hazzard... Men Need Nutritious food, real food.

If I was in Iraq I would be slaughtering a lot of Goats for food...

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'D')aryl-
The US public may not understand geopolitics, but they can be taught.

[TorrKing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'T')orjus-

"spoiled soldiers"...? BULLSHIT.

A close friend of mine in the Army wrote during the holidays to let me know that a camp full of Marines he knows of, is presently subsisting on one meal a day, not enough water to drink, no clean clothes, no showers.

And a day or two ago I read a news story saying basically the same thing. Soldiers getting one cold hot-dog (that's an Americanized type of German sausage) per day to eat.

If you bothered to read the news, you'd see that our soldiers also do not have adequate body armor, do not have adequate vehicle armor, have shortages of ammunition, and so on.

And while it may be true that some of our high-tech equipment guzzles fuel (mostly diesel), the fact is that our soldiers are no more or less spoiled than your own.

Our Commander-in-Chief (President Bush) is spoiled. Not our soldiers. Put the responsibility in the right place. An apology would be nice too.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', ' ')
You are completely wrong. Our military is (in Europe) only next to the russians in requiring as little supplies as possible. Adequate equipment and food for an American soldier would be heaven for a russian soldier. I have met American soldiers and they complain if they don't get burgers or porcelain toilets in the field. And have you seen their massive PI-EXes? No apology needed, I think.

Torjus Gaaren

[julianj]

Daryl,

Just one small disagreement:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')urope is in the midst of a peaceful takeover by Muslims

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('julianj', 'D')aryl,

Just one small disagreement:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')urope is in the midst of a peaceful takeover by Muslims

[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('julianj', 'D')aryl,

Just one small disagreement:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')urope is in the midst of a peaceful takeover by Muslims

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', ' ')every social group that embedds themselves in a first world economic domain stop breeding, just like us white guys.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', ' ')every social group that embedds themselves in a first world economic domain stop breeding, just like us white guys.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', ' ')Buchanan's base assumption though is that the invading, unclean, hordes would continue to breed like rats. That is not the case, every social group that embedds themselves in a first world economic domain stop breeding, just like us white guys.

[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', ' ')Buchanan's base assumption though is that the invading, unclean, hordes would continue to breed like rats. That is not the case, every social group that embedds themselves in a first world economic domain stop breeding, just like us white guys.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', ' ')You can't force assimilation nor can you mandate it through law. You provide the cultural freedom for everyone to get along and each ethnic group adopts the general social principles that make for a safe society.

Come to Toronto and see how it works. We enjoy our various cultural heritages and get along.

And why is it necessary to pay people (white people) to breed? Of what, long term, intrinsic value is there in whiteness?

The Quebec provincial government is attempting this, paying Quebec French women, to make more babies, so much a head. It's not working.

[Teclo]

No-one I know in UK wants to be ruled by anyone but a western thinking person, someone who is british in the sense they are in touch with our culture here and our identity. Our politicio's probably miss the mark on this but they at least do believe they represent this. Unlike the US we leave what being british is to the imagination, this I put down to our resolve not to be conquered. If we don't let anyone define us we define ourselves. Anyway, its true growing cultural groups with their own identify are a problem
Those that integrate and compromise can exist in relative harmony
But any that don't manage this, with high birth rates and strong identity wiill clash
Right wing claptrap about our low birth rates isn't the answer. What w'ere supposed to out-breed them, in an over populated world? Nuts
I think we're headed to a stable, non-growing population that’s comfortable with itself, doesn't need to multiply to justify its existence. Economy, immigration need to be adjusted to suit this. Maybe even limits to population growth that apply to all cultural groups. This would kill the paranoia & fear that we all have when this stuff is left to chance and competition, the extreme right play on this not try to fix the problems, they make it worse always (as does extreme left). Common sense is all we need
teclo

[zoidberg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'O')kay, evrybody is saying that can't happen. The US has all of this superior weaponry. It has this tremendous nuclear umbrella. It has an incredible industrial capability. And never mind its ability to carry out logistical support.

So, the question is not how per se, except that how might actually play a role in what comes after, but what will be the consequences if the US is defeated?

There are probably two scenarios by which this could take place. The first is nuclear defeat. That involves a lot of nukes being thrown around in retaliation, doesn't it?

The second is probably the scariest for the Ameri-jingos. What if the US is defeated conventionally? Again, forget whether this is possible, except that how might have a bearing on what comes after. How might be a terrible strategic blunder on the battlefield or betrayal by an ally that leads to a weakness that is exploited by the enemy to success, see it can happen. Talk about what it would mean should it happen.