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THE Africa Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Is Iran a red herring?

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Tue 03 Jan 2006, 12:47:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aqua', 'T')he Iranian problem is one that is worth watching closely over the next coming months as it has the potential of being the wildcard of 2006


I agree. I can't determine which way the Iran thing will go. They don't have the internal division for us to instigate a civil war. The Islamic world will only tolerate very limited military actions by Israel against Iran.

I really don't think US public opinion would support a "regime change" via military invasion ala Iraq, but they say never underestimate the stupidity of the public.

The shock and awe of $10/gallon gasoline next summer could make the "kick their arse and take their gas" sentiment seem right and proper in the minds of the US public and their elected representatives.
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Re: Is Iran a red herring?

Unread postby SchroedingersCat » Wed 04 Jan 2006, 18:49:59

Seeing an article like this China-Africa ties grow and tip global balance convinces me that there is more going on than meets the eye.

Looking forward, how many fronts will the big nations be fighting on? This is starting to look like the games of Risk we used to play.
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Re: Is Iran a red herring?

Unread postby Aqua » Wed 04 Jan 2006, 19:40:48

I really don’t think a land invasion of Iran by America is possible militarily let alone politically and certainly not economically, what has Iraq cost America so far? But judging by the rhetoric and international negotiations last year I cannot see the resumption of the Iranian nuclear programme going ahead without something more than words being spilt. The creation of the Iranian euro oil bourse in March is another slap in the face to America and I suspect the real reason behind this current international crisis. Sadam was foolish enough to do the same and challenge the mighty petrodollar; many believe it was the real reason for his downfall his real weapon of mass destruction for America.

I’m not calling any shouts on what’s going to happen here but I would be very surprised if this goes unanswered in 2006.

Schroediners Cat. Risk the game of world domination, yes I have yet to play a game that could turn friend into foe so brilliantly as this game can do. Shows you our true nature when the cards are on the table.
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Re: Is Iran a red herring?

Unread postby elroy » Wed 04 Jan 2006, 20:01:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')hat has Iraq cost America so far?
Don't measure costs and profit just in cash, there's also been political gains made. Extended control of the region, more political power at home, gained pressure to push new laws through etcetera.
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Re: Is Iran a red herring?

Unread postby backstop » Wed 04 Jan 2006, 20:11:26

In one thing the Neo-Cons are entirely consistent -

every plank of their foreign policy has raised tension over oil - in fact some, such as Iraq and negligence of greenhouse gas pollution, can be argued to have actively destroyed the cushion between Supply & Demand that allowed $30/bl.

I gather Iraqi exports are now at their lowest since the invasion . . . .

And the thugs haven't laid a finger on Simmons, for all he's now talking up the prospect of $200/bl . . . .

And guess which Terrists in which oil-producing African delta are finding hostilities escalating around them . . . .

I guess the US public are maybe the most forgiving in the world to accept that Bush has escalated oil prices for 5 years by accident - or maybe they're just the most gullible ?

And as for Iran - why should anyone actually attack it, unless of course they have some reason to welcome a catastrophic spike in oil prices ?

Personally I'd see a steadier price rise that crashes the Chinese economic boom, (and discredits the last major communist power), as being more plausible. The tail-end of the Reagan agenda ?


regards,

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Re: Is Iran a red herring?

Unread postby The_Virginian » Thu 05 Jan 2006, 15:30:09

The USA cannot ceede on all fronts.

Africa

Asia

Europe

Americas (esp. south)

Look for a large-scale war in at least ONE OTHER front other than Iraq.

My "edumacated" guess is for the America's.
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Africa

Unread postby frankthetank » Sat 07 Jan 2006, 12:04:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')OME - An estimated 11 million people in the Horn of Africa “are on the brink of starvation” because of severe drought and war, with some deaths already being reported in Kenya, the United Nations said Friday.

People in Somalia, Kenya, Djibouti and Ethiopia need food aid, water, new livestock and seeds, the Rome-based Food and Agriculture Organization said in a statement.

“Millions of people are on the brink of starvation in the Horn of Africa due to recent severe droughts coupled with the effects of past and ongoing conflicts,” the agency said.


link

My take is that these African lands can not support the numbers there and thats why this is happening, not the only reason, but one of them.

I just got done watching "Sahara" with Michael Palin, and HIGHLY recommend it to anyone. In the series he meets several men (chiefs, leaders, ordinary men) and in a lot of these countries Polygamy is alright (along with female circumcision). He talks to one man who has 12 children, but is having problems getting medicine and food for them..."Huh?" what? Keep it in your pants!

If i had any say in it, i'd be sending condoms and lubricants, not rice and wheat!
Last edited by Ferretlover on Wed 11 Mar 2009, 23:08:09, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Africa Thread.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby Specop_007 » Sat 07 Jan 2006, 12:08:13

I say cut them off completely. We've proven, time and time again, throwing money into Africa isnt not solving the problems. Themoney goes into the warlords pockets, the food off to the generals and staff.

Want to solve the problem? Airdrop crates of AK-47's, RPG's and cases of ammo to every village and town in the country and let the revolution begin.

I know it sounds tough, and I know it sounds inhumane, but what we're doing now obviously is NOT working.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby AmericanEmpire » Sat 07 Jan 2006, 14:23:46

Forget about Africa. We should all be worrying about the comming dieoff in the former first world nations.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby Lokutus » Sat 07 Jan 2006, 15:11:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AmericanEmpire', 'F')orget about Africa. We should all be worrying about the comming dieoff in the former first world nations.


Absitively posolutely correct.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 07 Jan 2006, 16:35:03

I agree there should be no food aid without equal amounts of birth control aid. To give one without the other is simply cruel to future generations who will inevitably go through the exact same thing. They need help learning to live within the constraints of their ecosystem, as we all do. This needs to be a worldwide goal.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Sat 07 Jan 2006, 17:39:03

Sadly I do not believe that most of the food aid given to third world countries by the US is done benovolently.

I had suspected this, but after reading the book Harverst of Hope by Jane Goodall, I am convinced it is done to drive their farmers into poverty and esentially into the cities where they will work in factories for little pay...making cheap goods for our markets.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 18:09:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'I') am convinced it is done to drive their farmers into poverty and esentially into the cities where they will work in factories for little pay...making cheap goods for our markets.


Compare the amount of profit multinational corporations win selling African-made goods in the US market to the amount of aid the US gives Africa.

Hardly worth the effort.

But hey, everyone loves a good conspiracy theory.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 18:24:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'I') am convinced it is done to drive their farmers into poverty and esentially into the cities where they will work in factories for little pay...making cheap goods for our markets.


Compare the amount of profit multinational corporations win selling African-made goods in the US market to the amount of aid the US gives Africa.

Hardly worth the effort.



I guess that depends on your perspective.

It is absolutely worth the effort for some. Organizations like Food for Peace, are really aid programs for U.S farmers(read; large farm corporations) allowing them to dump their surplus crops in Third World countries, while the U.S. taxpayer foots the bill.

I am not saying that all aid is done maliciously, but to think it is all done for the benefit of mankind (especially where large multinational corporations are concerned) is a little pollyanna.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby KiddieKorral » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 18:50:29

I agree with the birth control idea. Send them food, but make sure they either keep it in their pants or use protection (the latter being far more likely, so it makes more sense to pursue that approach).
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby Novus » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 19:12:47

Africa is already in severe overshoot. There is really nothing that can be done to stop it. Don't gloat over their misery because overshoot will be coming to an area near you all too soon.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby elroy » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 20:04:18

Has africa done anything worthwile ever, except for the egyptian culture ? I never heard of anything good coming out of that continent. All they know is war. Civil war, tribal war, war with neighbouring countries, dictatorships, guerilla war, religious war..
and yet they don't develop any weapons of war based on their experience, they simply buy them. How odd. At least our continent saw war as an incentive to be industrious and develop more efficient ways of killing ourselves, from the greek phalanx to the blitzkrieg and further.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby Gorm » Wed 11 Jan 2006, 07:16:32

wasnt the most killings (about 500 000 if my memory is correct) in Rwanda made by knifes, spears and meachetes? Humanity do not let lack of modern weapons stand in their way when killing someone else is fashion for the moment.
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby Permanently_Baffled » Wed 11 Jan 2006, 08:39:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leaf', 'W')ait till the die off really sets in...Camp of the Saints..boat loads of African will be comming ashore in France , UK ect...Just wait till the 1st world has to compete with food to the African....Lets put it this way racism wil be an everyday word then...


bah , if it gets that bad we will copy the Australians.

Will park the navy in the med and English Channel and turn the buggers around or sink them !! :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: 11 million to starve in Africa...

Unread postby elroy » Wed 11 Jan 2006, 09:57:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'w')asnt the most killings (about 500 000 if my memory is correct) in Rwanda made by knifes, spears and meachetes? Humanity do not let lack of modern weapons stand in their way when killing someone else is fashion for the moment.

No I know that, I'm just wondering why europeans developed themself through strive, warfare and conquest, and the africans only made war, not much conquest or development at all. I mean really.. what have they accomplished after all these wars ? In europe, we had Charlemagne, who conquered lots, Napoleon conquered lots, Hitler conquered lots.
Africans ? Name one conqueror. Besides the egyptians of centuries ago, and perhaps Hannibal, although they were phoenicians.
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