[ranger]

Oh, you got me!! Doom and gloom... everyone is evil and no one cares.....Maybe they are preparing for themselves and not us. Lighten up, being so hostile and sacastic gets you nowhere. If you believe ALL goverment agencies are out for themselves only, then prove it.

[Andrew_S]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', 's')o chill a little.

[Ingenuity_Gap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', 'O')h, you got me!! Doom and gloom... everyone is evil and no one cares.....Maybe they are preparing for themselves and not us. Lighten up, being so hostile and sacastic gets you nowhere. If you believe ALL goverment agencies are out for themselves only, then prove it.

[Ingenuity_Gap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', 'I')f you believe ALL goverment agencies are out for themselves only, then prove it.

[chris-h]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', 'O')h, you got me!! Doom and gloom... everyone is evil and no one cares.....Maybe they are preparing for themselves and not us. Lighten up, being so hostile and sacastic gets you nowhere. If you believe ALL goverment agencies are out for themselves only, then prove it.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', ' ') I went out to look at wood burning stoves ( which I will purchase in the spring...most models are on backorder for 6-8 weeks) A friend of mine who is an electrician is taking classes on installing solar panels. I think it is great! I am going to do my part with the wood stove.

[gt1370a]

Ranger sounds like one of those guys who says "Well, if gas gets expensive I'll just drive less. End of problem." It's not that simple. What happens in a growth-based economy when growth is no longer possible? What happens to a population that has overshot its resource base?

The best minds in the country have been working on this since 1971. They haven't gotten fusion working yet. There is no economical, practical renewable source, except in limited applications. The only thing they've come up with so far that has worked is the philosophy that we will fight for oil, and even the success of that looks questionable. Do you know what the best minds in the country are doing right now? Buying farmland.

Ranger, please check out lifeaftertheoilcrash.net and read Matt Savinar's book. Read "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. If you still think we will be fine, I would love to understand how you came to that conclusion, unless it's just blind optimism.

I'm glad this post was not deleted. It would be useful to understand more behind Ranger's thinking... it has been very frustrating to me, I have talked to a number of people who seem to grasp the concept of peak oil and they'll say "Hm, I never thought about that" and then they continue to not think about it. Maybe it's just that psychological theory that says 95% of people are followers - they look at what everyone around them is doing and imitate it. Then they try to logically justify their actions after the fact.

[chris-h]

The best mind in the universe MINE
has already solved the peak oil problem.

Once peak oil starts we will stop all oil consuming activities and we will
be on the net 24/8 downloading pR0n.All pR0n servers and clients will be powered by solar cells and hydrogen .The hydrogen will be collected from our own bodies because everyone will be fed with beans
There u have it.
Peak oil solved

[ranger]

I wish I could post and have a decent dialogue about something positive. When I said in my original post gas was around $2.25 people blasted me that the only reason it was low was because of imports from Europe and Japan, and that is EXACTLY MY POINT!!!! The U.S. obviously did something about it and worked out deals with Europe and Japan to get the gas to the masses. Then I mention woodstoves and I was slammed that what if everyone gets a wood stove we will have no wood for it. Fine. What I am gathering from most is that there is NO hope. I wish people would go back and read U.S. history...and guess what.... I DO think we will make it. The world is not going to end. At least I wrote to my town's development board to get the word out. I am not even patriotic, but I do believe we need to get the info to people on the local level. Maybe we should be lobbying for a preisential candidate who is going to do more. I know there are members of Congress and the Dept. Of Energy who have stood up and said we need to focus on this problem. Our generation now is not vocal. Americans in the 60's and 70's marched in streets, held rallys, and protested. I think we have become too passive as a nation. "If it doesn't effect me, it is not my problem" is the attitude of most. When the SHTF with our energy problems people will come together to solve it. To sum it all up in a nutshell.... I believe in the human spirit.

[duke3522]

Ranger,

Don't let the doom and gloomers get to you. Many of them see the problem as being so big that they have little hope.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that as energy prices continue to increase there will be much economic disruption in the US. And I have to disagree with you about the Feds, they don't give a damn about everyday folk.

But you are right in the actions you are taking. A wood stove is an excellent idea, and trying to get local authorities up to speed on PO can't hurt. The first step in dealing with PO for each of us is to make preparations to take care of ourselves. As Katrina showed us the Feds will be of little help, and your state government will be little better.

And if there is any hope for the common folk in the US then local communities will have to rally and support each other to make things work.

So hang in there. It is folks like you who will lead the effort to save whatever can be saved.

Duke

[eunos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', ' ')When I said in my original post gas was around $2.25 people blasted me that the only reason it was low was because of imports from Europe and Japan, and that is EXACTLY MY POINT!!!! The U.S. obviously did something about it and worked out deals with Europe and Japan to get the gas to the masses.

[Leanan]

Ranger, I admit I thought you were a troll at first. Now I believe that you are not a troll, you are just very, very naive. Everything you are posting is something we have all thought about and discussed before. Ad nauseum. That is why you are getting the responses you're getting.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') wish people would go back and read U.S. history...

[Revi]

We are also the most innovative people on the planet, or we were. Who do you think invented the solar panel, the bicycle and the internet?
We just have to get ourselves out of this petrochemical stupor we have been in and start to do something. We can take our American can-do spirt and turn it to creating a society that uses 1/2 of the present resources and lives just fine. We just lack the will. Decadence has set in. Well, I'm not planning on going down with the ship, And neither are lots of other people I know. We aren't just suffering from a lack of energy, we are suffering from a lack of imagination!

[Revi]

I just read Ranger's posts, and I have to say that I agree with him completely. A wood stove is a great idea! An even better idea is to learn about and get some solar panels. They are awesome! Almost no maintenance, low energy lights and you can thumb you nose at the blackouts they are promising. The answer comes up every morning! If we all put some on our houses we can use much less nat gas to generate power. We can make it to 2010 with no change in lifestyle if we cut all energy use 15%. Why not start now? After 2010 we all know it gets a bit more dicey, but if you have solar Led lights and solar hot water installed you can get around your house and take a shower around March even at my latitude. You just have to keep the long underwear on for winter.

Serously we all know what the deal is. I don't intend to become a no-hope doomer. I applaud Ranger. We can deal with this. Let's start now! There are all sorts of Eeyore's here. Don't listen to them. Chop some wood! Put some panels up. Build that ark. The flood's coming!

[Jack]

After careful consideration of Revi's points, along with Ranger's carefully crafted arguments, I have come to a conclusion. Thank you both for helping me come to the conclusion.

Enjoy the wood stoves and the solar panels. How that begins to address the rest of the challenges, including food production, eludes me; perhaps you can help me understand.

Doomerosity has now increased to 5.30.

[Ingenuity_Gap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'A')nd I wish people would look outside the U.S. and the extremely brief U.S. history. U.S. history until 1970 was on the upside of the resource curve. We "discovered" a whole continent full of rich resources, which was largely unexploited. Of course we did well. It would be pretty darn hard not to do well in that situation.

It's not freedom, democracy, the American spirit, the superiority of capitalism, or our "brilliant minds and determination" that is responsible for our success. It's those plentiful resources. We were born on the third base and thought we hit a triple.

[ranger]

Hip hip!!! All I wanted to do was have a good discussion, and I have learned alot from the reply posts. That is the great thing about dialogue. I had an opinion and now I've received alot of information to ponder. I have not been at this board more than a few weeks, and only into peak oil for a month or two. Thank you to all the people who can at least see a person's opinion ( even if they think it is wrong) and try to give them more information to go on. By the way, I'm a girl ( as most refered to me as a guy)

[Ingenuity_Gap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ranger', 'H')ip hip!!! All I wanted to do was have a good discussion, and I have learned alot from the reply posts. That is the great thing about dialogue. I had an opinion and now I've received alot of information to ponder. I have not been at this board more than a few weeks, and only into peak oil for a month or two. Thank you to all the people who can at least see a person's opinion ( even if they think it is wrong) and try to give them more information to go on. By the way, I'm a girl ( as most refered to me as a guy)

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are also the most innovative people on the planet, or we were. Who do you think invented the solar panel, the bicycle and the internet?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')Enjoy the wood stoves and the solar panels. How that begins to address the rest of the challenges, including food production, eludes me; perhaps you can help me understand.