[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '
')
It is rather typical of folks to do that 'daily life' thing and assume that if there is something to peak oil it will magically fix itself.

Anyway, here I am.

Best, Dan.

[Earthbound]

Hi All,

Just wanted to introduce myself to the forums, but I've been lurking on this and other PO sites for about two years. I've never been really active on these messageboards specifically, but some of y'all may have come across me in other environmentalist groups and mailing lists.

I don't think it's really possible to fully define someone based on gender, age, and predefined political and socioeconomic titles, but I don't know how to really introduce myself otherwise, so I'll say that I'm eighteen, female, and a "radical" (anarchoprimitivist/green anarchist/anarchosocialist, if you need an ism, although I try to avoid them as much as I can). I'm predominantly vegan and I live in Missouri... Specifically, I live offgrid at Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage, where I moved about 3 months ago. As with gender and age, I try not to define myself by occupation, but I make most of my income through art and babysitting/teaching.

...Many of you seemed to have some REALLY major misconceptions about DR stemming from that "30 Days" show with Morgan Spurlock... please remember that that show was specifically engineered for entertainment and shock value, not to accurately portray our community. If you've got any questions or need anything cleared up, please contact me about it.

I think I've covered most of the introduction stuff... Feel free to haze me now.

[SarahC1975]

Earthbound, You folks seem like you are well on your way to developing as seaworthy a post-peak oil lifeboat as a group of people could be, even though I realize most of you would be living this way even if po wasn't for another 100 years.
My question/concern is this: what, if any preparations are you making to handle refugees, marauders (including former US military special forces and defense contractors) that might show up when people realize that you guys had the right idea all along?

[kyzmiaz]

Hello Earthbound and all:

I am also going to introduce myself. I have also been lurking for a year or so and just joined a day or two ago. I am a male, a hair over fifty and I remember the 70s energy crisis. I live on 10 acres of woods in the NJ Pine Barrens. I built my house in here 1990. It is 'super' insulated by the standards of the 1990. We have a water source geo-thermal heat pump for heating and cooling. Our house has lots of south facing glass to take advantage of passive solar heat gain in winter. Thanks to a very generous rebate, in 2003 we had 9.9 KW photovoltaics installed to make our house a 'net zero' energy home. We produce all the power our 1650 square foot total electric home uses on a yearly basis. We are working on a garden but the soil is not too great here. We keep a few chickens for eggs. We have a full walk-in pantry with lots of stored food and water. Some things we did right, some I would do different now. I only found out a year or two ago about eco villages and that there are still communes - some still around from 30 + years ago. I wish I was 18 again!

[Earthbound]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SarahC1975', 'E')arthbound, You folks seem like you are well on your way to developing as seaworthy a post-peak oil lifeboat as a group of people could be, even though I realize most of you would be living this way even if po wasn't for another 100 years.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Earthbound', 'I') don't think there's much that we could do about it if the legal systems aren't still in place to protect it. I guess that's one thing that we don't have a backup plan for...

[Earthbound]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Earthbound', 'I') don't think there's much that we could do about it if the legal systems aren't still in place to protect it. I guess that's one thing that we don't have a backup plan for...

[seldom_seen]

cool, you advocate non-violence but you can still have guns for hunting or defense if you choose to. sounds good to me.

[Earthbound]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'c')ool, you advocate non-violence but you can still have guns for hunting or defense if you choose to. sounds good to me.

[Earthbound]

Thanks for all the great questions!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 'I') am curious as to what you view as the most likely outcomes form PO ?

[antspice]

I am Sander Buruma, born dutch in holland (and have been dutch since).
i am now 18 years old, i first found out about PO in a semi-gaming magazine in an article that (basicly) mentioned all the uses of oil and that it was ending, it left me in an alternating mood for the remainder of my life untill now (and im not ending it, just so you know). alternating between being very upset and sad to slightly delighted, related to my love and hate relationship with the rest of the world and my family.

i have googled some since i came back from the vacation in which i became aware, now i'v already come from the phase of where i go sailing the world to some reclusive spot where i can live a happily ever after. I also dropped the plan of making a spectacular end of my existance in order to take revenge on the people i disliked and resented (regardless of wether or not they have best intentions with me), theyn will probably disappear either way. I am still relatively alone in my awareness of PO. I am lurking over news-bulletins and the economy-channel and other news agents, planning to change a community (from the size of a family and upwards) to a community that can maintain myself and themselves for generations to come.

now i have a few gripes with this place, all based off raw interpretations and written while hearing my class mates play computergames (while their supposed to be working on a project).

gripe nr:
$this->bbcode_list('1')

The need to make everyone aware, is it truly neceserry!? the world population cannot by any remote chance maintain its current population, while it is very selfish to not care for the fate of other people i think you should considder the difference you can make. Whatever you do, the world population will shrink, die, get killed, murdered, raped, massacred and etcetera. There is no stopping that. Compare it to a big bomb, when exploded the surpluss energy generates a big sphere (overpopulation) and then implode on itself. In addition it is very unlikely population will just shrink to levels in which it can maintain itself by non-industrial standards

I just havent seen many mentions of it, the climate is changing, holland (my home) will probably flood w/o proper maintenance. The future planning forum doesnt seem to take it into account. I have no admireable education but it seems obvious that some (if not many/all) places will face extensive climatic changes, as we are allready experiencing. Africa has a massive desert, it wasnt that 250 years ago. what about another 250 years in the future.

Like the above, geopolitical climates will surely become very chaotic, if i am to believe everything i'd say that america will occupie the oil resources as soon as its people start to, i refuse to believe that governments will not turn bad once the "shit hits the fan" for the worse of their people.

Short term and simple mindset, sure a self sufficïent community is nice but what if a tsunami kills it or nuclear war destroys another 250 years later it it's all a quite big effort for nothing.

I also have trouble with actually doing anything about it other then surfing on the internet, i dont harvest a lot of motivation from my enviroment. I plan on moving to england and 'converting' a family into an expanding community (consisting of PO'rs), altough i might have to revise this after i do some research on the global climate changes (both enviromental and political) and make a post about it.

If it helps any, i am diagnosed with PDDNOS and dont communicate a lot with my fellow people, im turned into myself and put a lot of thought into just about everything i am going to do. Hoping to banish any mistakes from my way of thinking.

I refuse to die.
Regards, sleep tight.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('antspice', 't')he world population cannot by any remote chance maintain its current population.

[antspice]

could you elaborate on that? That the current world population cannot maintain itself w/o its industrial agriculture seems obvious, altough the agriculture will probably stay industrial for much longer then any other industral aspects, after that we'r back to quite infertile soil which then lacks fertilizers we now dont.

[Jake_old]

I think doly is saying that we don't know the natural carrying capacity of the planet, so it could be 6 1/2 billion. Many don't believe it is but it is important to note that it is still a belief not a known fact, I myself believe that a die off will come but will be slow. I can still hope that my belief is misplaced.

Think carefully about coming to england, I have decided to stay, but it sure wont be pretty even without climate change. Dutch people tend to be pretty welcome though.

Ever thought of living on a barge and staying in Holland. If TSHTF then you can sail somewhere else. You could have work keeping the place drained. I don't know what PPDNOS is btw.

good luck

[UnpreparedMF]

"I plan on moving to england and 'converting' a family into an expanding community (consisting of PO'rs), altough i might have to revise this after i do some research on the global climate changes (both enviromental and political) and make a post about it. "

Can you expand on this? Have you considered shoring up your education? You will probably need new skills to effectively provide for yourself and anyone that is not able to contribute in some way will have a very difficult go of it when resources become scarce.

I'm an old fart (36) who has gone back to school. In addition, I'm doing a lot of personal study to try and close the gap between what I don't know and what I think I'll need to know. From what I have been learning, it seems that the carrying capacity of the planet might be higher than we think it is, the problem is that we currently aren't arranged efficiently for a world without cheap and portable fossil fuels. Globalism might become severly restrained and a premium placed on things that can be produced locally. The transition will likely be painful, but maybe not TEOTWAWKI.

Chin up, we're going to need young people like you with brains!

[antspice]

i will finish my education, i will probably need it for several reasons one of which being plane status, the other being money and the 3rd being that a job "job" is still a requirement for a respectable lifestyle from which you can do something (surf on the internet or move elsewhere), anything.

On the converting a family thing... i have very litle confidence in the society that currently households me or that i would last for a long time here. The intuition that i have trusted on for so long makes me want to move elsewhere to a society in which i have some more confidence. Facing peak oil i imagine that a lot of countrys will become to chaotic to have a reasonable survivability for anyone like me, if i manage to make the transition easyer for a community by preparing them, survivability will probably go tenfold better. In advance to the above i am doing some research on how i should aproach people about the problem, i cannot come crushing in over any doors and yell doomsday, my dutch heritage might radiate some confidence but heritage isn't going to do everything. 'First contact' might well begin with a phone call or an accidental car breakdown somewhere nearby.

PDD-NOS also described as [Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified] is a rather vague diagnosis for someone who has psychologically developed in an atypical way.

Regards

[julianj]

PDD-NOS Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified.

I wouldn't worry about that mate. I bet more than half the forum have it

(which half I'm not saying!)

[UnpreparedMF]

I second that. I may be just a cynical American, but it sounds to me like they just haven't decided what drugs to try and sell you yet...

From what I've read here, it seems as though the concensus opinion is that you are better off affecting change within your own culture than to try and relocate and adopt another. Of course, in Europe, you are probably more comfortable traveling and residing in neighboring countries but you have to consider that when/if TSHTF, your status as an outsider might substantially increase your difficulty assimilating to another culture. If you are introverted and do not socialize well, those issues are only going to compound the difficulty. I suspect that there are "Peakers" everywhere and you might find a local group that shares your concerns to a certain degree.

Maybe you could help develop a pumping system for your country that was completely reliant on renewable energy? The approaches that you can take to PO will be as varied as the people and places that apply them. In Illinois, we have good farmland and abundant solar and wind energy that could be utilized more effectively. I am writing my representatives in government to push for increased funding for renewable energy research. I know that I may be just one small voice in the crowd, but it has to start somewhere. I'm also studying cost effective ways to incorporate renewable energy into small scale farming to see if it could be made more viable as standard practice. If you focus your effort on what you can do NOW, you might find more motivation.

Good luck Sander!

[Ludi]

Lots of different communities (with their own way of life) offer diversity, a biological plus for human survival.

I'm not one of the "Earth can't support the current population" types, myself. My stance is "Earth can't support the current population living the way most of us currently do but there might be ways of living which would work." So, instead of giving up and dying, I think we should try to find these other ways. Not saying I think we should continue to grow our population, though, I think 6.5 billion humans is plenty and we should leave room for the rest of the living.

So anyway, "hi"

[threadbear]

PDDNOS? Antspice, you are so lucky. I was such a screwed up mess when I was a kid. My parents thought I had SPIAD. Severe Pain in the Ass Disorder.