[Leanan]

I don't consider Pimentel a racist. I assume he's being tarred with that label because of the Sierra Club thing. He thinks population growth is a severe threat to the environment, and in this country, population growth is due to immigration.

This is a sensitive topic. Anyone who says they're in favor of limiting immigration is likely to be called a racist. I disagree. You're a racist if, like Pat Buchanan, you're in favor of allowing Irish immigrants with no education but against allowing Pakistanis with PhDs. If you just want to limit population growth, regardless of creed or color...you may be a doomer, but you're not a racist.

[Wildwell]

No it's not a short distance. Although I biked 10 miles a day for years, twice that distance. Ask your granny, most people walked from town-to-town and village-to-village in the early part of the the 20th century, if they didn't have a poney and trap or horse. Of course it's not ideal, but it get's round a lot of this silly population stuff. And in reality, that wouldn't happen, must people would buy an EV or hop on the bus and keep walking for the 'less than 2 miles' stuff - which I do every day. Your fictional granny is likely to order goods via the TV or internet and get them delivered by electric vans.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course it's not ideal, but it get's round a lot of this silly population stuff.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', ' ')And in reality, that wouldn't happen, must people would buy an EV or hop on the bus and keep walking for the 'less than 2 miles' stuff - which I do every day. Your fictional granny is likely to order goods via the TV or internet and get them delivered by electric vans.

[SarahC1975]

Flow,

The real experts were all at the Denver oil conference last week. And their conclusioins were no where near as rosy as those put forth by armchair experts like yourself and John Denver.


Could it not be that you haven't heard anything about this because we dont' need to hear anything about this? That the real experts in the industry actually understand just how much oil there is left, how much we can get and have a pretty good idea when Peak Oil will happen.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I') don't consider Pimentel a racist. I assume he's being tarred with that label because of the Sierra Club thing. He thinks population growth is a severe threat to the environment, and in this country, population growth is due to immigration.

This is a sensitive topic. Anyone who says they're in favor of limiting immigration is likely to be called a racist. I disagree. You're a racist if, like Pat Buchanan, you're in favor of allowing Irish immigrants with no education but against allowing Pakistanis with PhDs. If you just want to limit population growth, regardless of creed or color...you may be a doomer, but you're not a racist.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wilburke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wilburke', 'A')ny discussion of the agricultural practices of this civilization includes many more levels than idiotic, reductionist nonsense such as "NG and coal won't be peaking for quite some time, so fertilizer is a non-issue, for at least the next 50 years."

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Flow', 'C')oal to oil is capable of providing us with 2-4 trillion barrels of oil

[JohnDenver]

Monte,
That material on coal is important. You are right that coal will peak very quickly if we turn to it as the panacea. People also need to realize that other countries will also be placing demands on U.S. coal.
See:
ELECTRICITY IN MEXICO

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Flow', ' ') They answer to all of these type questions is: we will do it WHEN WE NEED TO.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'M')onte,
That material on coal is important. You are right that coal will peak very quickly if we turn to it as the panacea. People also need to realize that other countries will also be placing demands on U.S. coal.
See:
ELECTRICITY IN MEXICO

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Coal peak projections:
Hubbert Model Peak 2032
EIA, Annual Energy Outlook 2004 Peak 2060
Flat gas consumption and greater coal consumption Peak 2053
Flat gas consumption and synfuels from coal to replace oil Peak 2035

[...]

Coal will peak in 30 years utilizing synfuels according to the EIA in 2004, and this was projected before the realization that U.S. gas production had peaked and that growth of LNG would be difficult. Thus, coal will peak even sooner as it's use will increase to replace the loss from NG.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SarahC1975', 'T')he real experts were all at the Denver oil conference last week. And their conclusioins were no where near as rosy as those put forth by armchair experts like yourself and John Denver.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', 'P')rof H is in bed with rascists like Pimentel and Abernathy ..... Calling the reality as it is, is not an ad hominen attack IMHO

[GenghisKen]

I'll believe PeakOil is debunked when I can buy Abiotic potato chips(the bag that never runs out). I figure when all our great inginuity can do something as simple as that then energy will be no problem

[wilburke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')hat said, the problem of topsoil does not outweigh the problem of keeping the people who are alive today from starving to death. That is The Problem, and if you think otherwise, you are an incredibly callous and irresponsible human being. Should China and India embark on a crash program to improve their top soils even if that involves mass death, because topsoil is the real problem? You need to complete the circle, my friend. Tell us how we can fix the topsoil and keep people alive. At least my approach feeds people, and it is feasible. It is actually being implemented right now in China where 60% of nitrogen fertilizer is already made with coal. Your approach (apparently) is to say that all efforts are futile, so we might as well sit back and watch people die. And then you have the gall to say that I'm an irresponsible person who should be ignored. Why should the world's people listen to you? All you are offering is apathy, defeat and death.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', ' ')Monte, where are those figures located in the EIA Annual Energy Outlook 2004? They don't seem to be there.