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Does anyone know about microscopes?

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Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby Specop_007 » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 00:15:56

So, birthday time cometh.
I was thinking of getting something different for the kiddo this year. A good microscope and some slides, or maybe a chemistry set.
Does anyone know about microscopes? I havent a fucking clue about them. Whats good? Whats features would I want?
My Google-fu found this and the prices seem pretty decent but are they selling good scopes?

I was thinking of something like this but really have no clue. I'd like something with over 100x mag, preferably up to 1000.
This model confuses me, as it lists this
" Series F-01000 is a Monocular microscope that has 4 objectives for 40X, 100X, 400X, 1000X magnification."

but in the specifications it says this
"Objectives: DIN standard 4x (0.10 N.A.), 10x (0.25 N.A.), 40xR (0.65 N.A.), and 100xR (1.25 N.A.) oil immersion lens. All are achromatic, parcentered, parfocalled and color-coded"

So, do you have to buy the 400x and 1000x lanses? Whats the dealy-o?

So, if anyone knows a damn thing about microscopes, I'd appreciate some help! :)
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby seldom_seen » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 00:23:14

A microscope for the little Specster? what are you smoking?

Why don't you get him something like this dart shooting toy shotgun.

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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby Free » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 01:06:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')o, birthday time cometh.
I was thinking of getting something different for the kiddo this year. A good microscope and some slides, or maybe a chemistry set.


That's a great idea for a present! I loved to look through my microscope as a kid, opens up a whole new world! I don't know what specifically you have to look for - but there is surely a special forum out there with a lots of experts, exists for almost everything you can buy, or reviews...

I don't think it needs too much fancy stuff, just make sure it is solidly built enough, because I remember that once the mechanics of zooming in where fucked up I couldn't use it anymore because it would wobble around and I couldn't find that bacteria anymore...
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby UIUCstudent01 » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 01:26:39

"Genetic Engineer" may have a good future... 8)

It's just so cool. :lol:

Ah well.

Microscopes aren't exactly fun. LoL... get him a chemistry set... (blow stuff up!) :twisted:
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 01:35:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')o, birthday time cometh.
I was thinking of getting something different for the kiddo this year. A good microscope and some slides, or maybe a chemistry set.
Does anyone know about microscopes? I havent a fucking clue about them.

I had one, it came with some prepared slides of blobby-looking cells and stringy fibres. These got old really fast. I don't remember finding anything interesting to look at - there weren't any scummy ponds in the neighborhood to provide samples.

Unless the kiddo has an interest in microbiology or reverse-engineering microchips or some other application I think it would be a bust.

As for chemistry sets, they leave out all the fun stuff due to safety regulations.

In the same vein, you could go for a telescope, if you want to drive out to dark rural areas on cold clear winter nights to see stuff in lower resolution than you can download on your computer in the comforts of home.

Also there are electronics kits (Radio Shack) that let you wire up amplifiers, radios, solar cells, motion detectors, oscillators, etc.

Or you could ask her what she wants.
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby UIUCstudent01 » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 01:59:42

Yeah, most chemistry sets are pretty tame...

If you want to get the good stuff, you have to order on-line (or a catalogue?)... but then you have to know your stuff, but it's also rather expensive..

Go with some electronic kit OR a model rocket or... or whatever she wants.. because it's highly likely that she won't actually be interested unless she does really takes interest on her own...

I think some kind of electronic kit may be best as well...
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby oiless » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 02:03:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')" Series F-01000 is a Monocular microscope that has 4 objectives for 40X, 100X, 400X, 1000X magnification."

but in the specifications it says this
"Objectives: DIN standard 4x (0.10 N.A.), 10x (0.25 N.A.), 40xR (0.65 N.A.), and 100xR (1.25 N.A.) oil immersion lens. All are achromatic, parcentered, parfocalled and color-coded"

So, do you have to buy the 400x and 1000x lanses? Whats the dealy-o?

So, if anyone knows a damn thing about microscopes, I'd appreciate some help! :)


The objective lenses listed, with the ten power eyepiece, will give the magnification claimed. Like a rifle scope, 4x objective, multiplied by 10x eyepiece, = 40x, and so on.
Couldn't tell you a thing about the quality of the unit. Like any scope, lens quality and construction determine image quality. Shitty lens quality will result in poor image, but even the best lenses won't give a good image unless the fixture is solid and well aligned.
When I was a kid I had a 50x-1200x Tasco microscope (made in Japan at that time, if memory serves) that was either a birthday or Christmas gift, I forget which. A fine gift, gave me many many hours of enjoyment and learning. It was a not bad microscope, although the 1200x magnification was nearly pointless, due to poor image quality. I suspect that the alignment of the lenses was the fault there, although the fine focus control was marginal for dealing with that kind of magnification as well.
The scope you're looking at is a product of China of course. I don't know if that's bad or not. My experience with Chinese precision tools is that they're okay, but I have no experience with their optical equipment.
Sorry I can't be more help.
National's website: http://www.nationaloptical.com/about.html

I think this is the same scope, if you want to compare MSRP, or such.
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby Cool Hand Linc » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 12:33:29

Oiless is correct about the magnifications.

Also correct about the extreme high magnifications being realatively useless. Unless you spend A LOT of money.

Good one for a kid for sure!
Peace out!

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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby Jake_old » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 14:15:34

I hardly know anything technical about them but

Make sure you can light from above, makes it much much more interesting.

Very old cheese, lit from above is very interesting to look at, even now, never get bored of that :)
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby rogerhb » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 15:52:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') was thinking of getting something different for the kiddo this year. A good microscope and some slides, or maybe a chemistry set.


He could be the first person on the street to say, "Hey, I really have got bird flu!".
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby fossilnut2 » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 22:52:18

There's lots of excellent second hand microscopes on the market. A professional good quality microscope is no more difficult to use than an inexepensive new one...often easier to use because of better resolution, etc.

'If' you live near a university or college then put an ad up on the wall for a scope. I have two professional scopes that retail for a few thousand each that I got for less than 200 each. You can pick up boxes of prepared slides at a scientific house (Carolina Scientific) or often off the shelf at the gift shop of a science center store (or planetarium, museum, etc.).

Another fun scope is one you can find at Toys R Us (is that in the USA?) or similar store. They have science toys etc. and there's a microscope ( Intel about $80) that looks and works like a microscope but it can be hooked up to the computer and used as camera, etc. It's easy to use and a lot of fun. Your kid can take a micro photo of his fingerprint, hair, bugs, or whatever and see it instantly on the computer monitor and then manipulate it with the built in software. I'm a computer clutz but set one up and used it no problem. I gave it to my nephew and he still uses it. The built in photo shop-like programme keeps the kids interested.
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 00:14:56

This isn't a present idea of course, but I showed it to my kids and they loved it: pour a little hydrogen peroxide on some bleach and cap it while it fizzes. Then open the jar up and tip it onto a candle (Don't let the fluid escape, just the gas). The candle glows extemely bright. Then do the same thing with vinegar and baking soda. Snuffs the flame right out. The fizzings look about the same, but one is pure oxygen and the other is CO2 - that nasty stuff that's going to cook us all.
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby medicvet » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 01:12:50

I was always curious as a kid..still am..woulda liked a chemistry set. But one thing I found out I could do with a no money, then with a little more money build upon, was geology kits. You could learn about the rocks, then maybe get somethin to polish 'em..I dunno, tho, maybe that's just the girl in me that came out from the tomboy..

one thing I know I always would have loved would have been a few books on astronomy and a telescope..and if you create a peepin tom, don't blame me. (JK!) :p

But creating an interest in any form of science in a kid, I'm dead serious, is a DAMN good thing to do. ;)
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.-H.G. Wells

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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby OZ_DOC » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 23:26:33

Im a final year med student, not trying to brag or anything, just pointing out that ive spent god knows how many hours staring down these things in the last 5 years. I dont claim to be a technical expert on scopes, but i can definitely give some hints on what features make these things easy, comfortable and educational to use.

Something like this is a good bet
Image

This is the model K compound binocular scope from the microscope depot site you posted earlier.

Some feature i wouldnt pass up if you want this to be useful and not end up in a cupboard somewhere.

Angled binocular eypeices: hovering over a monocular vertical scope is a pain in the ass, and sore on the eyes. The image in binocular scopes appears three dimensional an imho is much easier to view.

Inbuilt illumination: DO NOT get a scope with a seperate light and a fiddly little mirror to illuminate the sample stage. These are a pain in the ass. Get one with the inbuilt illumination.

Decent zoom range: In class we would get blasted if we went straight to 400 or 1000x zoom. There is an amazing amount to see at 40 and 100X, and focusing is much much simpler if you start low and work up.

High Magnification: Many people assume the higher the better. without incredible optics (read expensive) anything ove 1000X is useless. Just a note about high mag. The majority of 1000X (10x100) objective lenses are what is known as an oil immersion lens. What this means is that to make it work you need to place a droplet of a special oil on the slide and then bring the lens into position so that the tip of the lens and to oil droplet and the slide are all in contact ie immersed. This is fiddly yes, however the views you will see at these mags are often spectacular. If you do not use this oil techinque the image will be unfocasable, many blame poor optics, it is actually poor technique.

There are some other feature eg condenser and iris adjustments which are probalby less important but you may be interested.

The comments earlier about lenses and magnification ranges are correct. Most standerd scopes have a 10x eypiece lenses and 4X 10X 40X and 100X objective lenses. This means mags of 40X, 100X 400X and 1000X (oil immersion). A good hint, to get 10X mag you can take off the eypeice , hold the slide over something white, flip the eyepeice around and look at the slide throught eyepeice the "wrong " way, this will give good 10X times magnification.

This scope on that site was $340 new, im sure with a little looking on ebay, and on uni notice boards and the like you could pick up one for a lot less.
(ps dont know that the particular model is shown is any good, ive never used it, we use olympus scopes at school, theyre great. Just wanted to show an example of some of the features to look for.)
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby Specop_007 » Sat 22 Oct 2005, 00:13:59

I wondered how oil immersion works! Thanks! :)
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby OZ_DOC » Sat 22 Oct 2005, 02:27:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') wondered how oil immersion works! Thanks! :)


Its not hard, you just drop on the oil, swing in the 100x objective lens and refocus, you do need to be careful with the focussing because the lens and the slide are now very close together, careless focussing will smush the lens into the sample, possible damaging the lens. just be careful thats all.

Forgot to check b4. The other type of scope thats available are called stereo or "dissecting" scopes. These have a larger sample stage lower down and are designed to hold larger specimens which can be manipulated and cut up while being observed down the scope. They have far lower mags, as they are designed for live viewing of samples. Theyre fine scopes but cant be used to see anything like the detail of a compound binocular scope, it really just depends on the intended use.

eg of stereo scope

Image

Just had a quick look around on google, decent new scopes start around 250-350 and second hand 150-250. The other thing to have a look at are the scopes which have an inbuilt digital imager, these plug into a laptop or desktop via USB and the images can be viewed directly on the screen, excellent for long viewing session, much easier on the eyes. Just found a good one from precision world on ebay item no. 7556261769 only $279

Image

Only disadvantage here is you cant use this without the computer, ones which can do both start around 600-700 i think although the one above does look nifty, if your kids are into computers too then its something to consider.
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby aldente » Sat 22 Oct 2005, 02:36:12

Oil immersion under the microscope is available in the online toy store of course:
oil immersion
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Re: Does anyone know about microscopes?

Unread postby OZ_DOC » Sat 22 Oct 2005, 02:36:37

UPDATE, about the USB link ups, you can get USB microscope cameras which slot in instead of an eypeice, this means you can use the scope on its own, or as a digital. These can be bought seperately for $130(updated). This way you can get the scope, then later if you think theyll use it you can grab the camera.
The camera not only makes for easy comfortable viewing, it also means they can take capture files of what theyre looking at. great for including in school projects and just to record interesting findings.
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