[nth]

Also, want to point out that my research into reasons why major oil firms are closing down refineries...
There are quite a few that stated oil production in the area has gone down, so doesn't make sense to keep it open.

Wowsers! So they want oil refineries next to oil production?
If that is so, why do they also say they don't want to built refineries near oil production when there are no consumers in the region?

WTF?
Are they saying they need both consumption and production in the same region for oil refineries to make sense?
Wow, that is exactly what they are saying!

"Shell initially planned to close the plant last fall, saying it no longer made sense to operate a refinery in an area of declining crude oil production."
San Francisco Chronicle: Jan 11, 2005 by David Baker
"Flying J buys Bakersfield refinery Shell sought to close plant"

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')The fact that refiners are actually shutting down refineries, and not building new ones, while they consolidate and make record profits, supports the criticism of "free market" corporate control of essential good and services, (certainly for the sustainable long term).

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'T')he free market is working perfectly fine, try to understand the process before making accusations.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'Y')es, don't worry, the poor are still being royally screwed for their crime of not having much money. The system is still working perfectly.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'Y')es, don't worry, the poor are still being royally screwed for their crime of not having much money. The system is still working perfectly.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')Fortunately, we, over here, have a whip-round scheme. It's called tax and welfare. It works surprisingly well, however in any scheme there are always people who consider themselves losers. Not having such a scheme also has losers such as Tsar Nicholas and Louis XVI.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')Fortunately, we, over here, have a whip-round scheme. It's called tax and welfare. It works surprisingly well, however in any scheme there are always people who consider themselves losers. Not having such a scheme also has losers such as Tsar Nicholas and Louis XVI.

[jaws]

Voting doesn't make an immoral act legitimate. If people voted to take all your wealth and to throw you into jail to starve, it would be wrong. But according to you, democracy makes it right!

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'V')oting doesn't make an immoral act legitimate. If people voted to take all your wealth and to throw you into jail to starve, it would be wrong. But according to you, democracy makes it right!

[jaws]

You refuse to look at the other side of the equation rogerhb. Denying someone a cup of water because they have no money may seem unfair, but the alternative is take away someone's hard-earned water, which is even more unfair. Someone worked and is being robbed. Someone didn't work and is getting sustenance.

There must not be any privileges. If you want the water, you have to work for it, just like everyone else. Fair is fair.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'Y')ou refuse to look at the other side of the equation rogerhb. Denying someone a cup of water because they have no money may seem unfair, but the alternative is take away someone's hard-earned water, which is even more unfair. Someone worked and is being robbed. Someone didn't work and is getting sustenance.

There must not be any privileges. If you want the water, you have to work for it, just like everyone else. Fair is fair.

[TT]

I reckon Roger wins

[jaws]

You haven't addressed my point roger. Why is it fair to you to take things that people have worked for away from them to give them to those who haven't worked to earn them?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'Y')ou haven't addressed my point roger. Why is it fair to you to take things that people have worked for away from them to give them to those who haven't worked to earn them?

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'B')ecause we are human, or like to think we are.

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'Y')ou haven't addressed my point roger. Why is it fair to you to take things that people have worked for away from them to give them to those who haven't worked to earn them?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'I')t is human to steal? It is also human to kill. We have outlawed them for a good reason. They are bad for the peaceful order of society.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'B')ecause it's easier for the rich to pay 35% than it is for the poor to pay 15%. A 40% tax on a rich man makes him wait another year for a cruise ship. A 15% tax on a poor man takes away his grocery money.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'S')o is poverty, so is suicide, so is starvation.

[SolarDave]

Meanwhile, as we discuss, the Saudis (and others in OPEC) are building refineries, with the money we are paying them for oil. Clever. The opium farmer buys a shiny new tractor with the proceeds of his crop.

Opec Plans to Build at Least 10 New Oil Refineries By 2011

I think we will NEVER build another refinery on the Continental US.

Note: Gasoline imports are up - way up.