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www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby yct » Tue 20 Sep 2005, 06:02:05

Search for www.switch2hydrogen.com on this site returned 0 results, so I'm posting.

I know hydrogen is more a storage then a source, and the above site isn't much honest stating that you can drive at virtually zero cost (like you don't have to pay 7k first), but it's an interesting concept of a conversion company.

J.

ps - damn it - just found this on that site (right before hitting submit!):
September 14th:
Our first serious problem has arisen. Hydrogen Embrittlement has been detected in some engine components, in some cases severely. Hydrogen Embrittlement occurs when Hydrogen gas dissolves into the structure of certain metals (usually Aluminum & Steels). It can cause cracking and failure of metal components.
We are now looking into this problem, possible solutions, and are performing a tear-down of our vehicles that have clocked the most miles on Hydrogen.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Caoimhan » Tue 20 Sep 2005, 11:07:47

Interesting site. The hydride storage system is a great idea. It should be used universally for hydrogen transport, if their claims are true. Their hydrogen enbrittlement problem is vexing, though. Maybe ceramic engines would help?
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 20 Sep 2005, 13:01:41

interesting

It'll be much more interesting when their products line contains more then a T-shirt, some fuel line and a solar panel as being available.

I'm specificially interested in their hydrogen generator that runs off of 400 watts of solar panels.

Hydrogen embritlement is a bitch to deal with, I don't think their tech will be used for very long on converting existing cars.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Caoimhan » Tue 20 Sep 2005, 18:14:59

They mention that the hydrogen generator CAN run off of household power. They just focus on the solar generation.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 20 Sep 2005, 18:26:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', 'T')hey mention that the hydrogen generator CAN run off of household power. They just focus on the solar generation.


It's more the fact that it works with 400 Watts of power and produces what seems like a sizeable amount of hydrogen that I'm interested in.

Quite a few months ago I did the math on how much it would cost for me to go to yearround solar power with hydrogen backups. It was a hell of a lot thanks to my lack of sunlight in the winter. I was also needing massive amounts of electricity to generate enough hydrogen so this is quite interesting.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby yct » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 04:17:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', 'M')aybe ceramic engines would help?


That was my first thought, altough I know nothing about it - I think it would be more expensive. Or maybe some additional substance to add to the burning process.

Here they say: "Presently this phenomenon is not completely understood."

Almost like the phenomenon of people ignoring Peak Oil..

Just had a conversation, it ended with:
"It's the flavor of the day. Prices take time to normalize and reach equilibrium. The current escalation and related 'analyst' commentaries are fear mongering. Remember that the analysts work for the banks, who, make handsome fees on all debt and equity transactions. Their motivations aren't as wholesome as you might think."

Btw, the heating gas prices are rising about 18% these days in Czech Republic and I'm doing my first decision based on the knowledge of peak oil - I'm switching to electric heating (have to do the math first, but I'm sure that's the way to go).
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Googolplex » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 05:07:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yct', 'B')tw, the heating gas prices are rising about 18% these days in Czech Republic and I'm doing my first decision based on the knowledge of peak oil - I'm switching to electric heating (have to do the math first, but I'm sure that's the way to go).


Have you considered solar air heating? Liked solar water heating, except you put air through the solar collector instead, being drawn from inside your home to be heated and blown back in again by solar powered fan. May not be appropriate depending on the amount of sun you get in the winter, but it can be pretty damn cheap to put together if your willing to build the simple device yourself. Its more a supliment then a complete solution, but might save you alot on the bills.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Googolplex » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 05:13:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', 'T')hey mention that the hydrogen generator CAN run off of household power. They just focus on the solar generation.


It's more the fact that it works with 400 Watts of power and produces what seems like a sizeable amount of hydrogen that I'm interested in.

Quite a few months ago I did the math on how much it would cost for me to go to yearround solar power with hydrogen backups. It was a hell of a lot thanks to my lack of sunlight in the winter. I was also needing massive amounts of electricity to generate enough hydrogen so this is quite interesting.


The missing factor here is time. From the site:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou can produce your own Hydrogen from electricity using either common "household current" or directly from solar cells so your energy cost is zero. It does however take a substantial amount of time to produce sufficient Hydrogen to fill even a small tank.
As an example, it takes over 2 days of our generator running at full power, 24 hours a day, to fill our smallest "short range" tank.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby yct » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 05:47:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Googolplex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yct', 'B')tw, the heating gas prices are rising about 18% these days in Czech Republic and I'm doing my first decision based on the knowledge of peak oil - I'm switching to electric heating (have to do the math first, but I'm sure that's the way to go).


Have you considered solar air heating? Liked solar water heating, except you put air through the solar collector instead, being drawn from inside your home to be heated and blown back in again by solar powered fan. May not be appropriate depending on the amount of sun you get in the winter, but it can be pretty damn cheap to put together if your willing to build the simple device yourself. Its more a supliment then a complete solution, but might save you alot on the bills.


That's the problem - the sun is very variable here, simply put - you wouldn't want to rely on it. And it's a rented apartment, so I can't change it too much.
The thing also is that I don't think the heaters (powered by gas boiler, water as delivery medium) are too effective, as the flat is rather big, so I may save with smaller electric heaters with fans, positioned on places I occupy and when I occupy them - like living room at evening, bedroom at night, etc..
We will still have to heat water with gas..

How funny - today when I went to work I saw three boilers lying on the street, thrown out - they were older models and it was most likely a coincidence, but a funny one.. The gas prices change quarterly and the message about the comming 18% hike went mainstream only a few days ago.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Drjay » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 10:30:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')tw, the heating gas prices are rising about 18% these days in Czech Republic and I'm doing my first decision based on the knowledge of peak oil - I'm switching to electric heating (have to do the math first, but I'm sure that's the way to go).


Depends upon how the electricity is produced. Much of the power in the US comes from natural gas. If oil goes up, so will natural gas, and so eventually will your electric bill follow.

Solar heat can make a significant impact upon your demand, just don't try to rely upon it 100% as it can get expensive to do in that mode.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby yct » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 15:01:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drjay', 'D')epends upon how the electricity is produced. Much of the power in the US comes from natural gas. If oil goes up, so will natural gas, and so eventually will your electric bill follow.


Thanks for pointing that out, I simply assumed that if there is 6 nuclear plants in this country, the electricity must be always cheaper than gas. I need to look at the market more globally, at least in the scope of EU, and maybe Russia. The first thing I've found says that electricity in EU is 35% nuclear, but currently I'm clueless in deriving the electricity price -> oil price dependency.

Solar still doesn't pay off, altough eventually I'm sure it will. But I live in a city and I'd be worried about getting my solar panels stolen off the roof, should there be an energy crisis..
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 17:13:50

Nuclear energy is NOT cheaper than coal or hydroelectric. Nuclear can sometimes be cheaper than natural gas depending on the price of natural gas on that day.

There are huge subsidies for nuclear power that do not exist for other energy sources. For example, no nuclear power plant in the United States pays for its own insurance. Why? No insurance company would dare underwrite them!

As for your website, I believe it's the first time I've heard of the Hydride solution. Interesting...

And I believe you are the first person from the Czech Republic on peakoil.com. (Or at least the first person that I noticed to be from the Czech Republic)
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Googolplex » Thu 22 Sep 2005, 01:40:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yct', 'S')olar still doesn't pay off, altough eventually I'm sure it will. But I live in a city and I'd be worried about getting my solar panels stolen off the roof, should there be an energy crisis..


We were talking about solar heating, not solar electric. The "solar panel" would consist of ducting and a black box that gets real hot. :)
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby yct » Thu 22 Sep 2005, 14:45:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Googolplex', 'W')e were talking about solar heating, not solar electric. The "solar panel" would consist of ducting and a black box that gets real hot. :)


Hey, I'm completely new to the topic! :) I wrongly assumed solar black box is only slightly cheaper than solar panels.
Also, sometimes the temperature in winter here tops -20 C (-2 F) with no sun..

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'N')uclear energy is NOT cheaper than coal or hydroelectric.


It gets "funnier" with every post here. Amazing how uninformed the general public (like me) is. It's been 2 weeks since I discovered the Peak Oil problem, yet every day there's at least one new fact about it that shocks me.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'A')nd I believe you are the first person from the Czech Republic on peakoil.com. (Or at least the first person that I noticed to be from the Czech Republic)


I'm a Slovak Republic national, now living in Prague, CZ.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby strider3700 » Thu 22 Sep 2005, 20:02:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yct', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Googolplex', 'W')e were talking about solar heating, not solar electric. The "solar panel" would consist of ducting and a black box that gets real hot. :)


Hey, I'm completely new to the topic! :) I wrongly assumed solar black box is only slightly cheaper than solar panels.
Also, sometimes the temperature in winter here tops -20 C (-2 F) with no sun..

I'm a Slovak Republic national, now living in Prague, CZ.


It shouldn't matter too much how cold it is outside. Insulate the box, make sure it's got good glass on the front and the air inside it will get hot when the sun passes through the glass and hits the black metal inside. just capture that hot air and you're good to go.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Bedevere » Fri 23 Sep 2005, 08:22:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yct', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', 'M')aybe ceramic engines would help?


That was my first thought, altough I know nothing about it - I think it would be more expensive. Or maybe some additional substance to add to the burning process.

Hydrogen embrittlement is a result of a phenomenon called solid state diffusion and tends to harden components (thus making them brittle) in much the same way that steel is hardened by adding carbon. Ceramic is a good idea, but you have to consider that most ceramics are much harder than metals already and so will probably not be much help.
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Re: www.switch2hydrogen.com

Unread postby Caoimhan » Fri 23 Sep 2005, 16:44:14

I thought they were already making ceramic engines. It's my understanding that hydrogen combustion in an ICE is best done at low compression, which happens to be easier on engine parts, anyway.
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