[holmes]

figured i would post on this thread for monte.
bump for monte.
http://www.esf.edu/efb/hall/pdfs/Hall_e ... n_envi.pdf

[PenultimateManStanding]

An interesting theory has it that life evolved/evolves to dissipate gradients in nature, thermal, chemical, etc. In other words, the overall increase of homogenization and increase of entropy in the universe is assisted by the presence of life.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', '
')Entropy assisted bythe presence of life?

[Falconoffury]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_point_energy

There is no such thing as negative energy. It's saying that particles never have a velocity equal to zero, and you can't have negative velocity.

[JustinFrankl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'I') would suggest that the vast majority of the world's population survives for weeks on end without ever actually "thinking".

Repeating the same schedule as the previous week, week in, week out, going to work, coming home, eating, sleeping following the routine, all of this can be done without ever actually "thinking".

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', '
')
Two Trees in the Garden

Tree of Knowledge / Left Brain / Current domination of Mother Gaia by Euro-Science and Intellectual Priesthood

Tree of Life / Right Brain / Represented by the Goddess, the Wisdom, this type of thinking has been suppressed for at least 4000 years.

The overall scheme is simply balance, the paradigm thus shifts...

Is not moderation and balance important?

Or need I point out the excessess of western lifestyle poisoning the rest of humanity?

Namaste

[Falconoffury]

I agree with Pen. All you had to say is that an imbalance exists among the world in the distribution of resources.

[venky]

I dont believe its anything against evolution, just a re-assetion that there is still a lot about the universe we dont have the faintest idea about. You can throw up ur hands in defeat and say the only explanation is God/gods, but I feel speculating on how 31st century physics might look like is pointless.

To argue against evolution you will have to somehow show that the somehow evolution, change over time contradicts the second law, which u haven't.

[knoppix2004]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', 'A')nd I believe once we reach a state of maximum entropy...an event occurs to reset the earth's entropy back to minimum.

[pilferage]

I dare you to make any less sense!

[whereagles]

Let me try and mention a few things about thermodynamics.

I hope I'm not being redundant, as I didn't have time to read the whole tread. I just post this because it can be of some help as to the relevance of thermodynamics for peak oil.

There are two types of energy: one type you cannot use to move stuff around (call it heat, or entropy or whatever you prefer), the other can be used to move stuff. The latter is usually called in physics "Gibbs free energy" or "free energy", for short.

While the sum of the two is constant in an isolated system (a system that does not trade matter or energy with its outside), the second law says that, in any process within that system, the free energy will decrease and the unusable energy will increase.

You're of course welcome to try and dispute the second law, but be warned some people have been trying that for 200 years now, with rather discouraging results.

Now, since we need to move stuff, we need free energy. Where do we get that? Well, you can get it from oil or any other fossil fuel you like. In this case two things can happen:

1. The amount of fossil free energy on the Earth is so large we can't exaust it within the lifetime of mankind, even if keep using more and more of it.

2. The present and future rate of consumption of fossil free energy will lead to its exaust at some stage.

Since scenario 2 is what is more likely to happen, we have to look for free energy from other sources. We usually call these "renewables". They feed on free energy coming, for instance, from the Sun or from Earth's rotation.

Basically, the second laws of thermodynamics isn't really important to peak oil. In a nutshell, the only thing it says is we can't make a car run on its own exaust fumes forever. While the fumes have free energy, the car moves. After that it stops. This only tells us what we already know from experience: we have to get our free energy from somewhere. Be it fossiles or renewables.

[ashurbanipal]

This is actually a fairly common argument, which, I'm sorry to say, is easy to refute:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he universe is like a clock which is running down." But, the evolutionists say that the world has been building up from simpler to more complex forms over billions of years.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ashurbanipal', '
')we've discovered all sorts of things about the universe that are nonsensical--my favorite being i, the square root of -1, which has real world application despite being an imaginary number.

[rogerhb]

If you have an apple, and leave it on the table, it will eventually rot.

And you could predict that the apple will rot.

So you could say leave the apple on the table and it's destiny is to rot.

But would you say that the apple has fulfilled it's role in life? Can now go to the next world sure that it will sit on the right leaf of the big apple?

Or would you say the whole universe was created so that we could have rotting apples?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', '
')I suggest you and everybody on this site read 'The Universe in a Nutshell' by Stephen Hawking.