[BitterSweetCrude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', '
')
People started showing up from as far away as New Hampshire. Lines snaked through town. Neighboring businesses summoned police, who directed traffic for hours. So overwhelming was the traffic, says clerk Jason LaValley, "We had to raise (the price) to keep people away." The store was selling gasoline for $3.19 Wednesday night, more in line with the competition.

[BitterSweetCrude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tinosorb', 'I') have no sympathy whatsoever for those who claim to be gouged with few exceptions. I don't know the statistics but I suspect that over 95% of them have chosen to drive inefficient vehicles and/or live far from their workplaces

How many of those people are driving Civic HXs, TDIs, or hybrids? Probably only a small handful. When they seek to trade in their woefully inefficient vehicles they might get a nasty surprise to find out they are upside down on their loans. They deserve it. Their personal contributions to the destruction of the planent is generally an order of magnitude higher than what they could be.

I personally look forward to the extinction of the SUV.

[falser]

I just gotta say - what the crap is going on in the United States? Nobody wants war anymore. And nobody wants to waste gasoline by driving Ford Expeditions anymore. People are actually starting to wake up and consume less. WTF!! I mean, c'mon folks, remember your heritage. Next thing you know, you'll start hearing about people not using credit cards anymore. That's when the US as we know it is truly dead.

[fluffy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BitterSweetCrude', '
')A guy I know is trying to sell his 2004 Toyota Tundra ( V8 ) and get a used Civic because the payment is too high and it gets bad mileage. He couldnt have picked a worse time to sell. Certainly the resale value of SUVs and large trucks has taken a huge hit in the past week.

On a related note, I've seen so many commercials on TV this weekend for the GMC Yukon, they are really really pushing that beast.

[gashole]

At the risk of everyone on this board ganging up on me in a lynch-mob fashion, I have a confession to make. I drive an explorer I am terribly ashamed of it, but I bought it at a less enlightened time in my life. When I started reading about a peak oil I ran out to try an trade it in, but I am upside down in my loan. The best I can do is wait till it is paid off (in a year), and park it. I guess I can keep it and use it only for utility purposes while I make payments on a newer, more fuel efficient vehicle. I guess if I had to I could buy a vespa to get around in!

[wildwest1941]

Does anyone really think that gas prices will ever go down again, regardless whether there is an increase in production or not? Oil prices are up to stay until we no longer have a need for it, an event which I can't forsee in my lifetime. And I believe that when a new energy source takes it's place, the same people now in control of the oil will be making sure they get the lion's share of that market as well. When all is said and done the rich get richer and the rest of society gets the crumbs that slip through their grasp. Times are a changing folks thanks to the pres and his buddies, make no mistake about it. With regard to the price of gas, those who champion price gouging and corporate greed as a fact of life may well be correct. When the price gets to 10 or 15 dollars a gallon there will be a lot less gas being used and the price may go down again so there won't be a reason for economy cars and then the cycle will start all over again. The pattern is already set.

[DoctorDoom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'Y')es, yes demand destruction but which demographic accounts for the highest percentage of that demand destruction? That's how you must estimate the impact to the economy, one person at a time. In fact we know how this demand destruction is allocated in a pyramid with the poor on the bottom and the rich on top.

[BitterSweetCrude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fluffy', '
')I didn't know what one of those was... so I did a check..

GMC site for Yukon

Note: †† EPA estimated mpg (2WD)16 city/20 hwy.

That's for the 2WD version. It (almost) goes without saying that anyone buying a 2 wheel drive SUV is not EVER going to be taking it off-road. In turn, that means they are buyiong the thing for vanity purposes only. My car does absolutely everything that that monster can, except on 40% of the fuel..

[thorn]

Interesting that most kept the price at $2.50. I wonder if guarded stations will become the norm when PO comes?



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Frenzy over gas shortages resumes
By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
GULFPORT, Miss. ? Gasoline shortages continue to provoke unrest in hurricane-devastated Mississippi, even as looting has subsided and recovery workers toil in peace.

Police closely guard the few gas stations open for business, controlling long lines of cars with barriers and squad cars. The wait for gas can range from 10 minutes to four hours depending on the time and location.

"People get crazy about gasoline when we're not here," said Gulfport police officer Travis Sheaffer, standing guard at a gas station near Interstate 10. "They were cutting in line, pulling guns ? all types of insanity."

About a dozen gas stations were open Monday in Gulfport and Biloxi, the two biggest cities on the Mississippi coast. They generally are open only during the day, closing when police go off duty.

A few stations have raised prices above $4 a gallon, but most have kept gas prices at about $2.50 a gallon, the price charged before Hurricane Katrina. Stations generally limit customers to $30 of gas or 10 gallons. Gas station employees pump the gas to control the flow and handle payment outdoors to speed the lines.

"Some people pushed their cars here for gas," said Fallon Demoruell, a gas station worker. "A lot of them haven't been too polite."

Many motorists here are driving with windows down and air conditioning off to save fuel, despite temperatures in the 90s. People want gas not only for their cars, but also for generators that provide the only electricity for residents who remain.

A Chevron oil refinery in Pascagoula, Miss., has been a major source of gasoline for the area. The refinery was knocked out of operation by the storm, but it continues to release gasoline from reserves built up in an anticipation of the storm.

Waring Oil Co., a Chevron distributor in Gulfport, is delivering 8,800 gallons of gas a day to eight stations and selling it at pre-hurricane prices, said general manager Mart Windham. At its main facility, which is without power, the company is selling gasoline to all comers in quantities of 100 to 300 gallons.

"They're supposed to be part of the recovery effort, but we don't check," Windham said. Nobody has been turned away. Ambulances, power company trucks and government vehicles are allowed cut to the front of the line.

Paul Hanson Sr., a retiree from North Biloxi, got in line at 6:30 a.m. Sunday and, four hours later, was next in line. He's getting 265 gallons to divide among five families in his neighborhood.

Howard Kaufman, owner of Getcha Some Discount Beer and Tobacco in Saucier, Miss., was waiting to get 60 gallons of gas and 105 gallons of diesel to keep his business going. "Cigarettes and gas are the most coveted things you can get here right now," he said. His store was looted after the storm, and he had to buy $47,000 worth of cigarettes to replenish his supplies.

Homer Martin, a construction worker,, of Saucier, was in line to score 100 gallons after his father was turned away the day before because he only wanted to buy 50 gallons, below the 100-gallon minimum. "My father got so mad he came home, got a gun and headed out to find gas in Mobile," Martin said. "We haven't heard from him since he left yesterday. He's old-school and felt he needed the gas to provide for his family."

Martin was bringing the gas home to run a $3,000 generator he bought for his parents.

[fossil_fuel]

actually, a lot of people choose a 2wd SUV over a 4wd version if they actually have something heavy to tow. Which is a legitimate reason for owning an SUV/big pickup.

[tokyo_to_motueka]

U.S. Pays Most at Gasoline Pump Since Iran-Iraq War
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ept. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Americans are paying more for their gasoline after adjusting for inflation than at any point since 1981, during the Iran-Iraq war, and prices may keep climbing.

Refinery shutdowns from Hurricane Katrina will push prices at the pump to $3.50 or $4 a gallon, said Charles Maxwell, senior energy analyst at Weeden & Co. in Greenwich, Connecticut. The average U.S. retail price jumped 45 cents last week to $3.057 a gallon, according to AAA, the largest motorists' organization. Gasoline prices in 1981, after the revolution in Iran and during that country's war with Iraq, equaled $3.14 in today's dollars.

[Jupidu]

Why don't people buy Photovoltaic-Sytems as emergency power units?
Here in Germany you get a 100Wp-Module for about 550 Dollar (lasts about 20 years) at a local supplier. Then you need a solar-battery (130Ah =~ 1,5kWh) for about
375 Dollar) and a alternating-current rectifier (600W permanent) for 160 Dollar and some wires (for the battery and
for the devices) for perhaps 12,5 Dollar (Battery) and 2,50 Dollar per meter (Solar-wire but usual wires are surely as good) for the devices.
With gasolines prices rising till the next World economy crash, i am sure you can get a quite good amortization rate.
In two to three years, when the actual lack of enough solar silicon is passed, the price of solar modules will get
even a lot cheaper than today.

Yes, you habe enough current only during sunlight, but with enough batteries you have enough energy for the
refrigerator and for the lights and perhaps even for television during the night. Okay the batteries have to be replaced after four to
five years perhaps, but i hope there will soon (couple of years) come cheaper and better batteries to the market.
In USA the solar radiation is even stronger than in Germany, so you get more energy per square meter than us. Even during winter there should be coming enough power from your system.
You never ever have to go to the gas station again, if you need emergency power.

Here in Germany other fuels are coming up: Biodiesel, natural gas or liquid gas. But another fuel is also vegetable
oil, which is really seldom mentioned. You can get it at every oil-mill, if you need big amounts. For the beginning
you can get it in your local supermarket (here for about 81 US-Cents a litre resp. 2,92 Dollar a gallon ).
A small firm called Elsbett produces special engines which can be fueled by pure vegetable oil. A few firms in
Germany are specialised in preparing usual diesel cars to be fueled by pure vegetable oil (1250-2500 Dollars).
The lighter the car the better the mileage!

Sorry for my english, but i hope you get my tips nevertheless.

[Revi]

I agree completely! We are getting a Giant electric assist bike for the warm months. I think I could charge it off of three solar panels, 4 batteries and an inverter. Now is the time to start to figure this out! When the gas gets scarce you won't be able to get either solar panels nor electric transportation. The Cushman electric vehicles look to be a solution to transportation as well. They are industrial golf carts that could get you around town at around 15mph.

John Howe will have his solar electric golf cart at the Commonground Fair in Unity, Maine on Sept. 23, 24 and 25th. Come check out the solution!

[Impala62]

I am in the mid west Ontario region and prices are roughly at 1.30.0.
With all the talk about half of the refineries coming back on stream soon, how does one relate it back to the doom and gloom stories written about earlier last weekin regards to refining abilities, could be weeks maybe months, also the talk of the platforms missing and such, and now all of a sudden all is going to be well.

Should I be as confused as I am? Whats the real story here?

Bill

[RonMN]

Give it 3 or 4 weeks before you come to a conclusion. I have a sneeking suspicion that the damage was pretty bad & we should see it in gas prices by the end of 4 weeks. Also keep an eye out if they continue releasing oil from the SPR's of the world...if that happens it will keep gas prices (and oil prices) artificially low.

[Impala62]

So basically, this is a very quick fix solution. Its a 3 steps forward one step back in prices situation. How are these other countries able to release part of their own reserves, when supply and demand are so tight?

Side note:

Last week a station ran out of gas, priced lower than others in the area.

Bill