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THE Hummer/SUV Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Nomoil » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 13:53:37

Bad genetics can easily be offset with good nutrition. Genetically predisposed means just that, one is predisposed, not predestined.

But my question is: when oil peaks, what will be the effect on the average American diet? Will it be the same crap, just less of it? Or will we see an actual marked improvement in the quality of food we eat?

I tend to think that we will eat the same crap, just less of it.
"Thank God I'm an atheist."
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 14:11:10

My point was that "bad" genetics aren't necessarily bad. There's a reason why so many people have a tendency to gain weight, and it's not because Mother Nature screwed up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ad genetics can easily be offset with good nutrition

Only if there's food to be had.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut my question is: when oil peaks, what will be the effect on the average American diet? Will it be the same crap, just less of it? Or will we see an actual marked improvement in the quality of food we eat?

I think it will be both. Plus, we'll all be exercising more, whether we want to or not.
I think peak oil will mean the end of globalization. No more coffee from South America, chocolate from Africa, etc. Well, there may be some, but it will be so expensive ordinary people can't afford it. Most people will be eating foods that were produced within 50 miles of where they live. And they will be eating less of it, because they won't be able to afford to waste food the way we do now.
However, I've seen some recipes from the Depression, and they weren't particularly healthy. Boiled potatoes, mixed with shredded Iceberg lettuce, slathered with oil and vinegar dressing. That was a dinner recipe. Not exactly something the American Heart Association would approve of. But probably better than McDonald's.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby SD_Scott » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 14:12:05

It's also a lot easier on your body to carry less weight. I'm 5'10" and I weigh 136 pounds. I'm an ex bicycle racer and have had some very tough spills. I think being light has saved my bacon many times. However I believe that the body has a happy zone and trying to be thin can also cause problems. The comments made about walking cannot be stressed enough. It's simply one of the best things you can do for you body. It's very safe, low shock, and you can do it in all weather conditions. Plus it puts your heart rate in a very productive zone. It's a common misconception that you have to do high intensity work to raise your lactate threshold and resting heart rate. Base training will do it, and you can add all of the volume you want, within reason. The handful of nuts comment is so very true also. Eat a handfull of nuts every day and try to avoid too much red meat. But if I could make one diet recommendation to anyone, it would be to avoid aspartame and other artificial sweeteners. If I knew someone that smoked a pack a day and drank diet coke, I'd tell em to give up the diet coke first. Avoid artificial sweeteners at all cost. That goes for sugar free gum too.

There is nothing wrong with being pleasantly plump.

Sorry for the rant, but aspartame is a crime.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby strider3700 » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 14:51:46

I entirely agree about the aspartame, I used to drink lots of coke and decided to switch to diet. I lost no weight, I started getting serious head rushes and eventually my fingers and wrists started going numb and I had trouble moving them well enough to play video games. I was told it might be the aspartame and switched back to regular coke. Symptoms went away.

Of course kicking sodas of all forms would go a long way to keeping me healthy.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby o2ny » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 16:09:26

Actually one of the most alarming things about the obesity epidemic is that there is a growing number of 'victims' that are young people- kids, teens, adults in their 20's. These people are going to have serious health problems later on...

If you eat right and exercise but are a few pounds overweight, it's really no issue (unless your concerned about appearances). I don't think anyone's disputing that.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 17:07:41

This story is in the news today: CNN
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')early 80 percent of Chicago schools studied had at least one fast-food restaurant within a half mile. Statistical mapping techniques showed there were at least three times more fast-food restaurants located less than a mile from schools than would be expected if the restaurants had been more randomly distributed, the researchers said.

On a typical day, 1/3 of American children eat fast food. That just boggles my mind.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby SD_Scott » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 17:21:50

I read a report the other day that said some school district was not allowing kids to drink regular soft drinks until 3:00 PM, but they could have all of the diet soft drinks they wanted all day. How very sad.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 19:47:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')pecop wishes not to undermine the brilliance and beauty that is Europe by any means, but Spec will also take lower taxes, cheaper gas and the right to own guns.

Having grown up in Europe, lived in the US and now in Canada I can tell you that overall the cost of living is pretty much on par, quality of life though I consider higher in Europe than in the US.
Yeah, true initially your tax rate is lower in the US (but not by much), but then they freaking nickle and dime you to death at every corner.
In Europe I pay one sum and that's it, there is nobody coming after me later.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 19:55:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VinceG', 'I') just don't go to McDonalds because I'd rather stay healthy and want to stay in shape...

I am very physical active (Triathlon, long distance) and I do end up at a burger joint occasionally and have a burger, there isn't really anything "wrong" with it from a nutrional standpoint.
The problem with most people is though that they have no idea:
a.) what they need (caloric wise)
b.) how much they just ate.
For "fun" I always get the nutrional information and reading those makes one scratch their head. The "lunch" a collegue once had came up to a whopping 3000kCal. tha tis what I need to eat on average, being almost 6'2" 180 pounds and are either running, biking, swimming or lifting pretty much every day. I also tend to pretty much walk or bike everywhere (and yes, I do have a car, but that's usually long distance trips or "food runs").
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 19:57:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', 'W')e've talked about the fat but what about the thin?
Those stiletto ladies in their power suits seem like knives poised to tear the gizzard out of anyone in their way.The guy with the 32" waist that costs 2 hours a day and $5000 a year to maintain. Personal trainers,fad diets and foods,health clubs and fitness spas,on and on.This is good?
And no,I'm not fat.Well,not too fat.

Hey, I have a 32" waistline (I think), but it isn't really 5K.
I did had a trainer this year, but that was because I had some weakness I wanted to address, otherwise what does it cost me? A pair of running shoes a month, that's about it.
Plus, it is fun, I like the challenge and it mentally gives me way more than if I would sit around all day. If I have a week of no training I am getting really moody as my body is missing something.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 20:00:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VinceG', 'I') find that a very weak excuse. Even after a long day of work you could still resist the temptation to eat fast food and decide to eat something healthy and get some excersise...

The majority of people doesn't know how to cook.
The most famous excuse? "It takes too long".
I dunno. But it takes me maybe 20 minutes or so to have dinner ready once I get home, that includes chopping stuff, throwing it in a skillet and making it.
Let's face it, it's all about convenience, and most people are just outright lazy, and if they can chose to actually learn how to cook for themselves or have someone bring the food they rather have the food brought.
It's not only guys btw, I have dated girls who were utterly suprised to find out that someone actually "cooks".
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 20:06:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SD_Scott', 'A')merica is a very stressfull place to live. I worked for a Swiss company years ago and I was surprised at how many of them really look down on over weight people. A friend of mine just went to Belgium to work for a year. He is hugely fat, and I mentioned to him that they sorta look down on that, and he has more than confirmed that. The dude is hating life over there.

I hate to say it, but I think that comes from the fact that:
a.) people don't want to be reminded of what "could be".
b.) that it is seen as "giving up".
Personally my biggest problem these days is trying to find clothes that aren't two sizes too big.
Seriously, I bought some shirts the other day that were fine in the shoulders, but they can double as an emergency tent :/
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 20:09:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'B')MI is a pretty crappy way to determine how healthy a society is.
I'm 5'9" a few years back I was obese according to the index, at that point I was 205 lbs, with a visibile 6 pack and muscles hanging out everywhere. I was probably below 10% bodyfat. These days I've socked on an extra 20 lbs of mostly fat, and now I'd agree I might be stepping into obese territory but the index would say I'm morbidly obese.
Having said that there are a lot of fat people out there and it's getting worse.

The BMI is really only useful for "average" people. For Athletes it is utterly useless.
According to the BMI table I border on overweight but I clearly have less than 15% BF (probably closer to 10).
The BMI also was never intended as a measurement for individuals, but rather for a group of people.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby Snowrunner » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 20:20:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 'M')ost of you who are doing the worst thrashing of fat people and braggin your ass off about it are probably under 40.

Yep, turning 31 in September.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t 5'8" and a solid 205, I live in an area is very isolated and almost no fast food restaurants. I walk or ride my bike to work better than 70 percent of the time, winter and summer. A few years ago (at 40+) I rode my bicycle 3000 miles in 5 weeks going across Canada. The point I am making is weight is NOT health, and it is NOT fitness, it's just weight.

True, the obsession with weight is a stupid thing. It is body composition and also things like resting heartrate etc.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's very VERY easy to get on your high horse about weight issues and all it does is prop up a false sense of esteem. When I was in my twenties I weighed under 140. Yes, you read that right. I also had the same resting pulse, and could eat a 2 lb bag of M&M's in one sitting. Age changes a lot of things, more than you youngsters would like to accept or believe.[/quote
Yes, the body changes, but it's like building a house, have a good foundation and you'll be pretty safe when the rains come.
Of course LIFESTYLE has a lot to do with it as well.

BTW, as for guys, beginning with 26 testosterone levels start to drop, this has a direct effect on building up muscle mass and body fat. I know what I am taling about, I don't have any of my own and only for the past three years are getting replacement shots and I know the difference.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd yes, I'd like to lose weight, but the amount of work it would take would destroy my life. I have a job, a wife, kids, and I'm trying to prepare for PO. There are only 24 hours in a day. I'm happy with the choices I have made.

Works' the main culprit. I did make a conscious choice that for me there has to be a balance and work can throw this badly out of whack. Granted, I got lucky with my job(s) and so far I only have to look out for myself, but financial even if I would have a family now I would do fine, mainly because I never fell into the debt trap.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ncidentally, the recent CDC studied showed that all those 'obesity' studies were mostly wrong. After controlling for factors such as smoking etc, the truth is that being slightly overweight is MORE HEALTHY than being underweight. Anecdotally, I know at my present weight I never get sick, whereas in my younger years at a lower weight I would get laid up for a week or two every single year.

There is clearly a "too thin" and I shake my head at times, especially at girls, who are so afraid of putting on ANY weight (regardless of muscle mass or body fat) that going on a date at times is just horrid because on the one hand they want to eat and on the other they are afraid (but still stare at MY platter).
It seems to have gotten to the point where you either have the rail thin or the overweight and obese, I don't think that most people actually have an idea anymore what's "normal".
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')verall, I would have to say that for PO, being a little overweight is probably a good thing ... it means you need less food to survive on than a skinny person. You also have reserves in case of illness (sure to be a big problem in the future).
Yes, the rail thin ones will be hosed, but so will be the unfit and overweight. If you can't lug your own weight around to get from a to b it doesn't matter how many spare tires you have, you still die in the end.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') wouldn't be patting myself on the back too much about your weight if I were you, some of it is lifestyle but most of it is just the luck of the genetic lottery.
In that case I got hosed, because Genetically I have a big red light flashing in my face.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby marko » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 23:18:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', 'W')e've talked about the fat but what about the thin?...The guy with the 32" waist that costs 2 hours a day and $5000 a year to maintain. Personal trainers,fad diets and foods,health clubs and fitness spas,on and on.This is good?

I just want to put it out there that I am a 43-year-old American male with a 29" waist who does not spend 2 hours a day or $5000 a year maintaining it. I am just conscious. I stop eating before I am full. I eat a balanced diet and avoid junk and empty carbohydrates. I seldom eat sweets. I happen to enjoy healthy food. I ride my bike to work when I can, take a brisk 30-minute walk every day at lunch hour, and spend 45 minutes at a gym 3 days a week when I can't ride my bike. I exercise because it feels good. The gym costs $120 a year. No fad diets, no personal trainers.

It is just a matter of being conscious and choosing a healthy lifestyle.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby marko » Fri 26 Aug 2005, 23:26:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'P')ersonally my biggest problem these days is trying to find clothes that aren't two sizes too big.

Man, I hear you. I have had to stop shopping at Target because, after questioning the manager, I learned that it is the store's policy not to stock clothes that fit me. Their smallest shirt size is a "medium," which 5-10 years ago would have been a "large." The smallest waist size that they carry for men is 32".
And they have very few oversized "medium" shirts. Most of their stock is in the large to XXL range.
In America, you actually have to pay extra if you are not overweight because the discount clothing stores don't carry clothes for healthy people.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby o2ny » Sat 27 Aug 2005, 00:17:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', 'W')e've talked about the fat but what about the thin?
Those stiletto ladies in their power suits seem like knives poised to tear the gizzard out of anyone in their way.The guy with the 32" waist that costs 2 hours a day and $5000 a year to maintain. Personal trainers,fad diets and foods,health clubs and fitness spas,on and on.This is good?
And no,I'm not fat.Well,not too fat.

This is the consemerist see-saw trap we're in- you see a commercial for miracle diet pills for massive weight loss and the next minute you're getting shown a huge plate of baby back ribs at chili's. It's a crazy mixed message and everyone involved in both the food and diet industries are raking in the cash.
This is insane, this is ludricousness and it cannot last.
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby sventvkg » Sat 27 Aug 2005, 00:39:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')pec eats like a horse. He has been gifted with an exceptionally efficient metabolism.

You mean an exceptionally inefficient metabolism. You waste a lot of calories. You'll be the first to starve when TSHTF. :twisted:

This is true..I've always been stocky..At just over 5-7, I have a big Chest, back and upper body and am thick wristed-big boned for my height..When I was in the Army We ran a lot..At my thinnest I was 150lbs...That was when I got back from Ranger School but I went in at 170..Ripped to the T but with a bit of stock that I couldn't get rid of, even with all the PT, Running, etc..The skinny guys were the first ones to drop in Ranger school where we got little food and little sleep..I was Happy about my Body's tendency to store a bit more fat then the Ripped up 6 pack Abs dudes...I was able to get through it better for sure...
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Re: Fatland and the SUV

Unread postby cornholio » Sat 27 Aug 2005, 01:11:18

The dangers of being overweight are clear and are not overstated... Obesity is related to hypertension, diabetes, high cholesterol and heart disease. The recent "study" which dismissed this connection (and bolstered claims that you could be fit and fat) made the mistake of not separating the underweight who have increased death rates from normal weight people. This essentially ballanced out the increased mortality of being overweight and made the overweight look equally healthy. The truth is being overweight and underweight both carry risk, and there is a healthy ideal weight. Getting there is the problem.

While this thread singles out America I would point out that as any country develops greater prosperity people will seek more TV time, avoid exertion and seek fattier and sweeter foods... And waistlines will grow. America is ahead on this curve, but Asia and Europe are showing the same trends.
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