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Can't do anything...going crazy...

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby FairMaiden » Thu 11 Aug 2005, 20:00:25

I am SO glad I found this site! LadyRuby and others are so insightful and I finally feel as tho I'm not alone. I am a sustainable transportation consultant and I've known about peak oil for 6+ yrs now. I thought it wouldn't happen in my lifetime but I started to notice great increases in the price of oil, did some research and now I'm not so sure anymore.

I feel like there is nothing I can do to prepare anymore. I've sold my car and ride a bicycle everywhere. I am trying to pay down my mortgage but thats not really possible right now (fiance isn't working). We have a 2 br apt that is filled to the brim so if I wanted to keep extra food, water, etc - I have no idea where I would put it! We have some solar panels so I'm not totally lost. I dream every night of a little place with room for a garden (I'd feel safer if I had some food growing)...I dream about negative things as well. And I feel like something is bearing down on me these days. I just got engaged and I have no desire to plan a wedding. I feel as tho it would be a terrible waste of resources given what I know.

But then we can't stop living, can we?
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby Deleterius » Thu 11 Aug 2005, 20:10:11

" ... We cant stop a living cant we ? ... "


And when It will stop for us ? What are we gonna do ? stay focus

Ur asking if a full wedding party is a waste ? Of course it is ... but what will be a real waste is YOU being correctly informed and not taking some steps in order to help yourself and maybe folks around you ... , in this regard you still can accumulate adequate knowledge while not disturbing daily life of ordinary "ingorant" people living with you.

If they dont listen you still have two ears and one brain, use it
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby americandream » Thu 11 Aug 2005, 20:13:25

Well.......we had a choice.....we culda lived each according to his needs.....but instead we chose to live like locusts.........cause and now effect. Nothing we can do except wait for the end cos i dont see any changes happening at all apart from a few souls like yourself.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Thu 11 Aug 2005, 21:56:12

Welcome, FairMaiden!

I'm gonna be friendly enough to say "hello", anyway, LOL!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I') am SO glad I found this site! LadyRuby and others are so insightful and I finally feel as tho I'm not alone. I am a sustainable transportation consultant and I've known about peak oil for 6+ yrs now. I thought it wouldn't happen in my lifetime but I started to notice great increases in the price of oil, did some research and now I'm not so sure anymore.


I would like to see a return to the wide-spread use of trail transport, and (indeed) believe that the most "sustainable" (though that word is now a cliche) form of transport is a steam locomotive using purpose-grown plantation "wood" (or sugarcane-left-overs), but i cannot seem to find anyone else who thinks that way, LOL!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I') feel like there is nothing I can do to prepare anymore.


Yes, there is...y'see, because you've kept yourself informed and finding this "group" (board? Area? Site? Whatever) is one of the ways to be kept up-to-date. Therefore you're likely to find some odd questions coming at you in the very near future, from "real life" contacts. These questions will be a round-about way of asking about Peak Oil, and they will be asked by some REALLY quite conservative people, which will also be a surprise.

Try not to let your jaw fall too far out of your head, LOL, when it happens.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I')'ve sold my car and ride a bicycle everywhere. I am trying to pay down my mortgage but thats not really possible right now (fiance isn't working).


Shortly, he's about to be joined by an awful lot of Auto workers...and airline employees...and housing industry workers....and, well, you get the picture.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', ' ')We have a 2 br apt that is filled to the brim so if I wanted to keep extra food, water, etc - I have no idea where I would put it!


LOL, you don't have nearby relatives?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'W')e have some solar panels so I'm not totally lost. I dream every night of a little place with room for a garden (I'd feel safer if I had some food growing)...


You can't get access to the roof? I have seen that *most* concrete boxes have a large flat roof area. This *might* be convertable to a vegie garden, but I will bow to the greater wisdom of those who are better gardeners than me. I simply dunno if this can be done, i'm just making the suggestion.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I') dream about negative things as well. And I feel like something is bearing down on me these days.


You & the REST of the human race. Welcome to Modern Living.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', ' ')I just got engaged and I have no desire to plan a wedding. I feel as tho it would be a terrible waste of resources given what I know.

But then we can't stop living, can we?


LOL , getting hitched is no "waste of resources"..it depends on what one DOES about the wedding...if one wants to rent out the Taj Mahal (I know of someone who did that) and put on a huge "spread" afterwards, then, YEP, it 's a waste...But, if you were to simply paddle out on a surf-board with you & future hubby in your wetsuits and the "bridal party" with you (on other surf-boards, I mean)and have the cermony THAT way, then it's a whole lot less of a waste.

Indeed, why don't you try to think up a way to have a "zero waste" wedding? Put Hubby-To-Be to work on that (men love that sort of thing - trying to make things re-usable - I should know: I AM a man), and then get relloes to work on that as well...your stock with them (including your future In-Laws) will go up.

HECK, there's a slight chance people will wanna pay you to "do" their weddings FOR them that way.

In any case, please don't imagine that "thinking negatively"is a bad thing.

Have a look at http://www.despair.com (The Cure For Hope) to see what one guy has done about being a DAMN sight more realistic about things.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby FairMaiden » Fri 12 Aug 2005, 16:23:57

Thanks for the welcome ubercynicmeister!

I found a lecture by Prof Bartlet on the site and played it for my fiance last night. He watched the whole thing and afterwards turned to me and said: So what is it going to take to get you to stop worrying about this?

So we started planning and making a list. I feel SO much better now. He feels as long as we have each other, we can face anything. He's a dreamer but I love him ;-)

We've put off buying that new car he wanted and will put the extra money into our mortgage. I'm looking for a gov't job or something that is "crucial" enough that one of us will still be working if the economy crashes.

I just needed to "talking" less and "doing" more. Thanks for the help.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Fri 12 Aug 2005, 22:34:06

LOL, Hi FairMaiden and thanks for the response...as no-one ELSE had greeted a fair maiden, I felt I ought to do it (your fiancee has a great gal!)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'T')hanks for the welcome ubercynicmeister!

I found a lecture by Prof Bartlet on the site and played it for my fiance last night. He watched the whole thing and afterwards turned to me and said: So what is it going to take to get you to stop worrying about this?


LOL, have you showed him The End Of Suburbia (the DVD I mean, not taking a drive out to where the 'urbs turn back into fields...)?????

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o we started planning and making a list. I feel SO much better now. He feels as long as we have each other, we can face anything. He's a dreamer but I love him ;-)


I decline to comment about dreamers, LOL, but I will say - as long as you're thinking, at least you're headed in the right direction. The problem IS NOT that we're running out of Oil, or out of Energy, at all - it's that everyone has given up thinking in favour of CONSUMING.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e've put off buying that new car he wanted


LOL, if it's steam-powered BUY IT. They can literally run on ANYTHING. And they make NO NOISE, either. AND they are far more powerful than petrol (erm, gasoline) driven cars. There';s a story (I've never been able to confirm this....) that a couple of brothers in the US rebuilt a diesel powered truck with a 6 cylinder steam engine, just for something to do.

They took said truck (an 18 wheeler) for a test drive, to see how it would perform. They got to a set of lights and a rev-head in a sooped-up pretend hotrod drew in beside them - and bellowed that he'd "be able to drag 'em off" to the next set of lights.

So when the lights turned green, the two guys in the truck flattened it - and beat the pretend hot-rod to the lights....without a SOUND.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')and will put the extra money into our mortgage. I'm looking for a gov't job or something that is "crucial" enough that one of us will still be working if the economy crashes.


You're going to think I'm having a "go" at you, but I'm not - I'd suggest both of you be prepared to be drafted.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') just needed to "talking" less and "doing" more. Thanks for the help.

No worries. I beleive that we should all try to help one another, as an antidote to the Poison of Clueless Consumerist Competition.

Co-Operation...now THERE'S an old-fashioned concept.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby LadyRuby » Sat 13 Aug 2005, 00:55:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I') am SO glad I found this site! LadyRuby and others are so insightful and I finally feel as tho I'm not alone.


Me? I'm speechless! It sounds like you're doing great and have already done a lot to prepare. I, for one, feel a bit better now that most of our finances are shifted around (less to lose if the stock market crashes so we'd have some hope of paying off our house). I'm kind of up and down lately. The other night I felt pretty panicky. Today, I'm having this feeling like maybe PO just won't be all that big a deal?? As long as the hump over the peak isn't too steep, perhaps the transition will be somewhat gradual?? Anyway, that's how I'm feeling at the moment, that can change in a heartbeat.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 13 Aug 2005, 01:34:56

OK ...someone has to wade in here with the notion of calm....Look folks, historically what your are seeing in the markets over the last few weeks does not speak to "time to panic." The investment community are pretty much idiots who run on what everyone else is doing at that particular moment. The numbers in terms of demand and supply are still pretty confusing...if you can find someone who is tied into the the whole idea that the world is collapsing tomorrow who can claim that is incorrect then well I guess I must be wrong.
Stand back...be calm....get more information...understand how markets work.....and most of all understand that the so-called gurus of investment advise are pretty much idiots wandering in new territory right now.
Calm...ohm madi pad muhm. please!
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Sun 14 Aug 2005, 00:15:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'O')K ...someone has to wade in here with the notion of calm....Look folks, historically what your are seeing in the markets over the last few weeks does not speak to "time to panic." The investment community are pretty much idiots who run on what everyone else is doing at that particular moment. The numbers in terms of demand and supply are still pretty confusing...if you can find someone who is tied into the the whole idea that the world is collapsing tomorrow who can claim that is incorrect then well I guess I must be wrong.
Stand back...be calm....get more information...understand how markets work.....and most of all understand that the so-called gurus of investment advise are pretty much idiots wandering in new territory right now.
Calm...ohm madi pad muhm. please!


LOL, Hi Rockdoc.....I think people DO need to think calmly, yup, you're right, BUT, the High Price of Oil does tend to sharpen one's thoughts, you must admit.

Certainly, we're NOT seeing an asteroid on certain collision course and we've got three weeks before we see it impact in the Atlantic with an Equivalent Yield of 100 million megatonnes, thus wiping out most of Life On Earth.

Sure, this present shamozzle is due to pannicky, clueless idiotic "investment gurus" who are just STARTING to have dawn on them what the "problem with oil" really is. And, yes they are doing what any normal investment guru does in that set of circumstances:

BLIND PANIC

But preparation is what's needed. I would say that it's a great start to start thinking about what's needed, but action is ALSO what's needed.

I will certainly unhesitatingly agree that, yes, this set of circumstances did not NEED to happen, and that it's entirely "voluntary" (is that the right word for something being allowed to just happen?).

But it's US (you and me) not the clueless pannicky investment gurus / Economic Rationalists who will either pull us all outtta this hole, OR at least preserve what we can - and I'm thinkin' that the preservation of life is (to me at least) fairly high on the agenda.

NOTE WELL: if this is the reaction to what is really quite a moderate rise in Oil prices, long predicted here at the boards (and by the ASPO, etc), then I am quite concerned about what the reaction will be (once again, by the clueless incompetents running the place) once Peak Oil really starts to bite.

But in NO WAY should we seek to imitate those clueless incompetents - either in their bland smug elitist ignorance of the facts or their mindless blind panic in their reaction to the facts as the facts get up & belt them squarely in the mouth (and deservedly so, if you ask me)

A calm, measured response is exactly what these clowns are incapable of.

It's a huge irony that the "experts" are - once again - going to have to be pulled out of the muddy hole of their own making (assuming that such can still be done) by those whom said "experts" most despise: ORDINARY PEOPLE.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby FairMaiden » Mon 15 Aug 2005, 15:18:00

Funny you should mention a draft - my fiance was born in the US (I am Canadian) and he told me when I first met him that he often had nightmares about being drafted. Luckily he is getting too old for that (even if the proposal to raise it to 35 goes thru)...he's 33 now. I could handle something like that - I've seen death in front of me before. But he is a sensitive emotional guy and I would not like to see that change. It would certainly break a spirit like his. That is even worse than thinking aboou peak oil...
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Mon 15 Aug 2005, 20:15:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'F')unny you should mention a draft - my fiance was born in the US (I am Canadian) and he told me when I first met him that he often had nightmares about being drafted. Luckily he is getting too old for that (even if the proposal to raise it to 35 goes thru)...he's 33 now. I could handle something like that - I've seen death in front of me before. But he is a sensitive emotional guy and I would not like to see that change. It would certainly break a spirit like his. That is even worse than thinking aboou peak oil...


LOL, heck, if they drafted me, I'd be the first to go along & do things like stuffing lots of water i to the fuel tanks & sand in the gear-boxes....it would be sorta like Hogan's Heroes.

I'm sure your fiancee could poetry them to death, if needed. Mind you, if your fiancee is unemployed, you MIGHT be able to get him to Head Fer Them Thar Hills, and go & hide from the draft-board.

Alternatively, go take him to visit your relloes in Canada...and ferget to come back.

A poetry -writing study tour to the Tierra Del Fuego, perhaps?
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby FairMaiden » Mon 15 Aug 2005, 20:49:59

LOL...well, we are in Canada...all his family is Canadian...his father works in the US alot bc he's an expert in his field and all the work is down there. So I think we are safe, phew. I feel for all the US soldiers who should be done and coming home but haven't been released. This is crazy.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Mon 15 Aug 2005, 21:45:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'L')OL...well, we are in Canada...all his family is Canadian...his father works in the US alot bc he's an expert in his field and all the work is down there. So I think we are safe, phew. I feel for all the US soldiers who should be done and coming home but haven't been released. This is crazy.


LOL, you sound like you're fairly new the the back-to-front upside down world of Economic Rationalist thinking...it takes some getting used to, eh?

Politcal Correctness is the other absurdity - where "good" is bad, and "bad" is good, "right" is wrong, except when it's "rights" (as in human rights), dogma is despised & doubtful, but doubt is to be held onto dogmatically. YEP, it's back-to-front, upside down and is the classic "Dubbil think" of George Orwell.

You're right that it's crazy, BUT - once you get used to the mental gymnastics required to "comprehend it", then you'll be immune to it, forever - and anything else that comes along under another colour, that even smells slightly of "it", you'll be able to tell it a hundred miles off.

It's incredibly valuable, then, in training & helping one to think - and thinking is what's lacking, here, especially amongst our "leaders".

I hope this helps.

*sigh* I wish *I* had a gal like you.
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby FairMaiden » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 19:08:11

You are totally correct Uber!

I have always seen the "truth" of things - its my special gift. We were watching the news last night and the report said, "X's family claims he did not survive the attack but the police say that he is in critical condition at Y hospital." I turned to my fiance and said, "So he's brain dead and essentially dead to his family but for the police he isn't dead until he stops breathing." And today we heard an interview with a family member stating he was brain dead.

I have incredible intuition about these things. I actually gambled once bc my intuition told me my coworkers were making more money than I. I could tell by some shifty eyes and backward speak. So I walked in, demanded a raise and was denied. I told my boss, "I'm sure that everyone here is making more so I deserve equal." He avoided my gaze and said, "thats not true - we are all in the same ballpark. Actually, you haven't had a raise in a couple yrs...we can do something about that." I ended up getting a 12% raise. I know I was right. But I had no proof!

Uber - you'll find yourself a gal. J & I didn't meet until we were 31...he wouldn't have been able to handle me before then ;-)
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Re: Can't do anything...going crazy...

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 20:18:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'Y')ou are totally correct Uber!


Shhh! SHHH! Don't tell anyone, LOL!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I') have always seen the "truth" of things - its my special gift. We were watching the news last night and the report said, "X's family claims he did not survive the attack but the police say that he is in critical condition at Y hospital." I turned to my fiance and said, "So he's brain dead and essentially dead to his family but for the police he isn't dead until he stops breathing." And today we heard an interview with a family member stating he was brain dead.


I suppose I shouldn't make light of such a situation, but the following is (supposedly) a transcript of a court case, where an idiot lawyer was being tied in knots by snappy answers of the witness:

Lawyer: Before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?

Doctor (expert witness): No.

Lawyer: Did you check for breathing?

Doctor (expert witness): No.

Lawyer: Did you check for any vital signs?

Doctor (expert witness): No.

Lawyer: Then how did you know the patient was actually dead?

Doctor (expert witness): Because his brain was sitting in a jar on my desk.

Lawyer: But isn't it true he could have still been alive when you performed the autopsy?

Doctor (expert witness): It's true he could have been practicing law somewhere.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I') have incredible intuition about these things.


The problem I find is that most things require COUNTER-intuition - like for example, it's intuitive to say the Sun moves around the Earth - because we see that happening every day - and we cannot feel the Earth turning beneath our feet - and it wasn't until Foucalt's Pendulum (the object, not the book) that the Earth's rotation was proved in the 1800's I beleive. Foucault's Pendulum explained. Therefore it';s COUNTER intuitive to say the Earth orbits around the Sun. Most people think that old man Copernicus came up with that idea - actually, it was a fellow by the name of Lucretius, about 2,000 years ago. Lucretius came up with the direct fore-runner of the Heisenberg Principle, and Probability Theory - something he called "small inclinations". Have a look here

It's counter intuuitive to think about Oil depletion - one can accurately say that "for every year up to this point, we've had increasing production". This is absolutely correct - and irrefutably so.

But what we're talking about (in Peak Oil ) is not PAST Oil production, it's FUTURE Oil production.

It's counter intuitive to think about the curvature of the space-time continuum as the reason for "gravity", it's counter intuitive for almost EVERYTHING about Quantum Physics, but still it happens.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')ber - you'll find yourself a gal.


LOL, heck, I have given up, fairmaiden, Aussie chicks are just too darn aggressive.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')J & I didn't meet until we were 31...he wouldn't have been able to handle me before then ;-)

HECK, does HE know this? Um, on second thoughts - mebbe we don't wanna know the answer to that question!
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