[ShawnAvery]

I don't know about everyone else here, but I have had an amazingly hard time dealing with the ramifications of peak oil and it's impact on my character.

In the "Should we even tell anyone?" post there's much mentioned about how people react when you start to speak of the ultimate bad news. I find that it's not just peak oil most of the time, that people have trouble taking anything truly SERIOUSLY, as if the part of their mind that is serious is turned off.

I am not the type of person who wants to or even considers sitting in a corner waiting for people to wake up to the reality of the worldwide mad dash for the cliff.. and ive been trying to warn people about it..

but all this shit has wrought havoc on my personal relationships, general attitude, and interactious with others. i find myself thinking if someone is rude to me 'well i wont mind capping HIS ass when the shit hits the fan' and stuff like that.

i keep trying to latch on someone, simply because im scared shitless because i know that even regarding a best case scenario, THIS IS AS GOOD AS THINGS ARE GOING TO GET... and ive personally sat down and told about 15 people about this, actually sat them down and explained it all, and every time.. i lay out the facts, draw a few graphs, point out references, credibility of sources, how current world events tie into it all...

and every single time, that person later avoids me like the plague. i used to have a lot of friends, girlfriends, and party and have fun a lot..

when i first started reading about all this i read that oil production would peak and fall into a decline. its totally plausible. i thought.. 'oh well, big deal.. we will all drive less.' later on, i saw more about it, like it should be important.

and then, the clincher. just about everything comes from oil. plastic, electricity, transportation, food production, etc etc.. oh, and by the way, population and increases in oil production are very closely correlated.

i was in shock for like a week. afterwards, i was in denial. i checked all the sources. no holes. no rational arguments against the logic of it. humanity has been diagnosed with terminal illness. oh shit, i better buy a gun. so i bought a gun. then i thought about it, holy shit, i know how they must see me. im a fucking conspiracy freak! i bought a gun and am thinking about moving to a rural area! wtf?

but im not a conspiracy freak, after all, 2+2 does equal 4, does it not? then i realized something very important.

i was at a friends house, trying to salvage what's left of friendship by not mentioning peak oil, and being nice, and the tv was on. i personally dont own one, but.. seinfeld. funny shit, ya know?

when that tv was on i totally forgot about it, i got caught up in the sights and sounds, image after image after image. it was almost as if i had never even heard about peak oil.... i started thinking 'yeah right, you arent going to sell me that peak oil end of the world crap..' and then i thought, wait a minute... i still had no rational argument against it.

omfg. tv brainwashes you. try it, i dare you to. go watch tv for a few hours, then go and try and take anything TRULY seriously. you cant. it makes truths seem implausible and falsities seem commonplace.

it fucks with your attention span, hardcore, so you cant think critically on one subject for any period of time. its addicting. if it isnt addicting, sell it. is that out of the question? if it is, you are addicted.

if someone has a problem nowadays, or anything is wrong, they dont seem to want to try and fix it, they just go and distract themselves from it. instead of learning to live life, they learn ways to distract themselves from it.

and the scariest thing is, it turns you into a consumer. you only have 2 decisions, to buy, or not to buy. everything else is irrelevant.

im not for sale, and i dont want to buy anything, so people just dont know what to do when they are around me, and sit there. im a person, not a consumer. i live life, i dont distract myself from it. i care about truth, im concerned that the life i lead is based in reality.

maybe i just really need to buy a tv, and go get on some meds. lol

[Markos101]

ShawnAvery, I totally agree with you. You seem to be reflecting my experiences very well for the past few weeks.

I've tried to discuss with relatives about peak oil. I've e-mailed my brother with 3,000+ words going through each detail, and to be fair to him, he thinks I'm right. So does my Mum (or 'Mom' in the US-speak).

My dad, on the other hand, is business as usual. He sits many hours a day in front of the TV. And I've noticed - those who are actually sitting down, listening to me, and taking me seriously...are the ones that don't watch much TV.

I swear to god. It's as if TV just makes all serious issues disappear. I made a post a couple of days ago in the 'Open Discussion' forum - I did this because I had been following Sky News all day about the Russian School masacre.

And suddenly, you're right. Although what I was watching was serious, in a way, it too had dulled my senses off and made me think of images. Previously, I had had a constant, rational mind speak thinking about issues - finances, peak oil, business, time management...and then after that day, suddenly I felt impotent. I started sitting down and image after image went through my mind - from that day's news. I tried to get back into my usual train of mind-thought, but I couldn't.

Suddenly, I also noticed I was much more vulnerable to irrational lines of thought - thinking that a minor issue that was previously easy to deal with was suddenly more difficult.

You're right. And to think during my younger years, TV was a major activity for me. Then when I went to university, I adapted to a life without it. It was actually a big change, but I'm much wiser and self-reliant for it now.

Honestly, I think a lot of people go through their lives relying on the TV to give them reality. I'm not sure that that many people actually fully appreciate and recognise reality as it is presented to them by their own minds. Or at least something like that.

Mark

[Aaron]

I sympathize Shawn.

Most people will not get this... too complex.

That said, I challenge anyone with half a brain look at these three presentations, and not want more info:

http://www.peakoil.com/gate.html?name=W ... ink&cid=13

[Itch]

You know, if you're supposed friends abandoned you for talking about something of this magnitude, then they probably aren't the greatest people to be around in the first place. Still, it seems like you were a bit heavy on your approach to address the situation. I've found that the more vehement you are about the subject, the further you push your audience away. Alarmism is not credible in just about anyone's mind, so you have to be a bit more subtle in your approach. How you do this is a decision that works best for you.

[Laurasia]

Shawn: I was in shock for at least a fortnight after discovering the concept of Peak Oil. I doubt that your friends are bad people or anything, I think they just don't want to think about anything as unpalatable as the End of Civilization As We Know It. I think that maybe once you start making physical preparations for Peak Oil (such as stocking up on food bit by bit) you will feel better, and maybe some of your friends might think "wow Shawn must be serious about this Peak Oil stuff; maybe there might be something to it!" And in the meantime you can hang out with all of us here - cos we don't need convincing!

Regards,

L.

[Terran]

Well as far as people goes, alot of people will not listen to it. I stated before, psychologically people want to hear good news, not bad news that's going to affect them later on. I had learned not to waste my time, and energy trying to tell other people.

As far as intelligence goes, sure alot of them don't understand it, but even if you talk to some of the brightest people, they just don't really care.

As in school I talked to some of the brightest kids in my A.P classes, but they just don't care. Some of them do understand that the world is going upside down from issues less serious than peak oil, like social injustice, poverty, discrimination, etc.. they think they can make the world better through their education, through community service, like Key Club. I think they're in for a suprise.
Even so, alot of them are just focused on trying to obtain a 4.6 GPA, getting schlorships, and getting into some of the top colleges. Thats what they want to do, I say continue on what your doing.
I do think very few of them will eventually learn that this is serous, no to be cold hearted or anything, but by them, I sure as well be a few year ahead of them in terms of community planning, and taking action. I just wanted to say, even for those super intelligent people, "ignore things on your own risk."

[backstop]

Shawn, anyone who has dared to look outside the box of this terracidally decadent society knows how you feel.

Some of us first saw other terminal threats like peak oil as far back as the late sixties, which are only now starting to be recognized widely. So beside those threats' shadow we face both the deep frustration of having been unable to prevent worsening conditions over decades, and the knowledge that there are few things more disempowering than falling into self-pity, depression and apathy.

So, count your blessings!

The friends you'll have are those with the courage to look around themselves honestly, and, if you're lucky, to set themselves to work for the common good, regardless of perceived 'probabilities of success'.

You have the chance to help develop the solutions that have been ignored all these years which are now starting to be adopted as a matter of necessity.

Just watch out for anyone telling you that things are so urgent that we've no time to think about what's sustainable, we have to do what's profitable now. That haste, close-mindedness and dismissal of coming generation's welfare is exactly how we got into this mess in the first place.

Good luck to you.

Remember you are not alone!

Backstop

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou have the chance to help develop the solutions that have been ignored all these years which are now starting to be adopted as a matter of necessity.

[Hegel]

Don't worry Shawn.

When I addressed this issue to my friends, they acted the same way as you mentioned in your posting. Many of them realized the grave situation when crude oil almost hit $50, changed their mind and quit ignoring me and my "wierd idea" :D

I guess it's just a matter of time plus proper "events" to change one mind. Just wait for you friends to come back to you.

[Viper]

OK, Shawn, grab a beer and some chips, and come back to the computer.

Look up.

Shelter?
Check.
Look in your hand.
Food?
Check.
Look in the other hand.
Liquid?
Check.

OK, now breath.

Understand something, and I'm sure that a lot of the people on this board will flame me for saying this, but it needs to be said.

Survival has nothing to do with putting together a Boy Scout kit. It has nothing to do with buying land, a gun, or a solar oven.

Survival is 100% all about attitude. If you want to survive, then you probably will. If you don't, then at some point someone will come along who does, and will take all of your toys right out of your hands.

If you want to truly wake up to the real world and you are young enough, then I cannot stress to you enough how much you would get out of joining the military. It is a mind blowing and life defining event. For me, I found myself in the middle of the desert with nothing but my uniform, a rifle, and a few items in my backpack. I was miles from civilization, the stars were brighter than I had ever seen them before, and thats when it hit me. I could keep my self alive in that moment for as long as I wanted without the input of a single other human being. For two nights I was completely detached and totaly independent of humanity. I could have been the absolutely last man on earth, and I would have been fine. Out there in the desert, or up on a glacier, or maybe diving beneath the sea, that is where you find out just who and what the hell you are.

Could peak oil happen? Sure. Could a big rock from outer space smack the earth next month? Yep. Could the Ebola virus go airborn and wipe out 90% of humanity in a couple of months? That too. Do you need to obsess about any of these things and drive your friends and girlfriends away in the process? No. Should you really stop having fun while the disco ball is still spinning? Nope(You only live once). Should you at the same time, challenge yourself with life and character enhancing activities so that when you find yourself on a marooned boat (as some haitians did recently) you know how to keep yourself alive? YES!!!

Disasters are a personal matter. Things that happen to the "Earth", do not happen to you. Things that show up on your doorstep happen to you, and you need (and quickly) to learn to tell the difference. China having a six month blackout with water riots? Not happening to you. Gas going up in price and forcing you to rethink your budget? That, you need to worry about.

My two cents.

-Viper

[gg3]

Itch is right on target here: subtle works, alarmism doesn't.

Something I think might be interesting: tell people this: In order to replace oil in the US, as the oil supply declines, we will have to build 500 new nuclear reactors: that's 20 new nuclear reactors every year over the next 25 years.

Now at first, the average listener might think, "okay, build more reactors, ho-hum..." But then the implications will start to sink in: Hey wait, how long does it take to build a reactor?

Give people enough of the puzzle that they'll have to work out the rest for themselves. Make it interesting enough that they'll want to try (as Jato said with respect to telling his friends, in another topic here). Then they'll come to you asking for advice.

Re. TV and bad news & all...

Actually, people *do* crave bad news of a certain kind. Think of what makes local TV news: very often it's crime, crime, crime, and lots of close-up shots of grieving parents sobbing about the tragic death of their offspring.

Now, quick cut to the commercial: suddenly everything's all perky and happy.

What's going on here is, the misery of the actual news, followed by the "relief" of seeing a commercial, creates a mood change that views consumption as the way out of life's miseries. This is very effective for advertisers. And it entirely shortcuts rational thinking.

Here's another thing about TV: The normal fictional fare consists of a "dramatic sequence," i.e. a plotline that starts with the characters having a problem, then there is a buildup of tension as they try to solve it and have various conflicts, and then finally there is a dramatic resolution. Watching this kind of sequence has obvious emotional effects, i.e. you're drawn in, feel the tension and excitement, and feel the relief when the dramatic conflict is resolved.

If you have that experience once in a given night, it can leave you feeling refreshed and even invigorated, like physical exercise. If you repeat it a sufficient number of times, back-to-back, what happens is that you temporarily exhaust the neurotransmitters, neuropeptides, hormones, etc., that are the biochemical basis of emotional states. So in effect you end up feeling exhausted and even numb.

A similiar dynamic occurs with sex, and is particularly obvious in males: after a certain point, repeat-performances within a short period of time simply end up exhausting one's libido until it can "recharge" on its own.

So the key to avoiding the kind of apathy that occurs from TV overdose is to moderate and control the dose. An hour a night, probably OK. Each additional hour, more and more problematic. Adults should be willing to apply to themselves the same standards of discipline in this area that they would apply to their own kids.

If you know someone who's abusing TV and basically addicted, it's not going to be easy to get them to recognize it and change. In that way it's similar to overt drug abuse. However, here's a strategy that therapists use when dealing with patients who are in denial about substance abuse: Ask the patient, "how much is too much?" and "So if you go above that level, you'll agree you're over-doing it?" and then let them set their own thresholds. Most people will set thresholds that are within normal & reasonable, and then when they go over, they are faced with the fact of their own knowledge of the abuse-threshold limits they set. Very often this can help someone get over their denial.

However, don't be too hasty to abandon your TV-hooked friends. When TSHTF, they may very well remember what you were saying, and get back in touch to ask what they can do now. In which case, be willing to talk to them, fill them in, and give them an option to join up with your plans if at all possible. Very often there is a lot of potential that's hidden beneath the effects of a mind-numbing habit, which can come out as soon as the bad habit (e.g. substance or TV abuse) is overcome.

[Chicagoan]

I have only told a few close friends. I don't go into all the details, just the basics without going into the end of the world stuff. If they want to find out the really scary stuff, they will have to look it up themselves. One friend has done so, and he believes it. The rest just blew it off. I believe that if people are unwilling to look deeper into something this serious themselves, it would be no use explaining it to them.

The hardest part for me is explaining to my parents why I want to move to the city rather then stay in outer suburbia. And why I plan on selling my car. They have lived through it all.

[Chicagoan]

Oh, I do watch the Simpsons and Enterprise. I tape them and watch it without the commercials. It is the adds that make you stupid.

[Matrim]

Well since we're talking about TV again.....

Shawn, I know what you mean buddy. Since learning of peak oil my mom thinks I'm crazy and my best friend for like 10 years never talks to me anymore..........oh well.

My advice to you is only tell the people who matter the most, the ones you want right at your side when the shit finally does hit the fan. If they're receptive and want to get off their ass and do something to help you plan ahead, great! If not, oh well, you'll be there to save their ass in the end

As for what Viper said......

I agree that one must have the right attitude to survive, a certain get up and go if you will. However, to think that no planning is necessary is absurd. That's hardly the attitude needed to survive a sustained oil crash. Yeah, it's great that I have a roof over my head, a brew in my hand, and food in my stomach. But ....... I also have a brain in my head, and as my mom would say, God bloody well put it there to use. The fact that I have learned of peak oil months, years, or decades before it actually occurs, simply gives me that window of opportunity to plan for the future. Just because I know some things are going to get worse doesn't mean I don't appreciate how great things currently are. I couldn't be more happy that I have the option to look up damn near anything I need to know on the internet and/or speak to someone online who can tell me what I need to know.

I just don't think I'll have that option forever, best to take advantage while I do.

Also I think taking advantage of these options shows, above all else, a survivalist attitude. Knowing that you CAN survive without oil, is probably the most liberating experience you can have in the context of peak oil. But you can only know that if you know HOW to survive without oil.

[pinou]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')hen that tv was on i totally forgot about it, i got caught up in the sights and sounds, image after image after image. it was almost as if i had never even heard about peak oil.... i started thinking 'yeah right, you arent going to sell me that peak oil end of the world crap..' and then i thought, wait a minute... i still had no rational argument against it.

omfg. tv brainwashes you. try it, i dare you to. go watch tv for a few hours, then go and try and take anything TRULY seriously. you cant. it makes truths seem implausible and falsities seem commonplace.

it fucks with your attention span, hardcore, so you cant think critically on one subject for any period of time. its addicting. if it isnt addicting, sell it. is that out of the question? if it is, you are addicted.

[k_semler]

When I first realized the severity of the peak oil situation that will inevitably result in a declining social infrastructure, I was wondering what the point of life was since I would more than likely be dead in 10 years from the collapse, and I actually prayed to god a couple nights to actually terminate my life so I would not have to deal with the consequences of peak oil. After about a week, I decided to buy some Unisom, and I took ten tablets after having 18 beers hoping that I would just not wake up the next day. I ended up waking up four hours later, and I realized that if God wanted me to die, I would have.

I have since realized that God will take me when I have fulfilled my purpose here on this earth, and since I did not die from an excess amount of Unisom and alcohol combined. I still have yet to find my purpose, but once I do find that purpose, I intend to execute it fully and completely so God will end my life.

I have also realized that if the sustainable level of the planet is only 2,000,000,000 persons, then I have a very small chance of surviving the decline. According to the United States Census Bureau, the current world population is 6,391,236,793. This leaves me with roughly a 31.292847766030189080493985696706% chance of surviving the decline to a sustainable economy. Given that my chances of perishing before or during the decline is roughly 68.707152233969810919506014303294%, I am not really sure that any survival preparations are even necessary. My stance is now one of apathy. I simply do not care if I live or perish any longer. If God wishes for my life to end, it will. Likewise, if God wishes for me to remain on this earth for another fifty years, I will. I really have no choice in the matter of the time of my demise.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Shawn, the best scenario in my opinion is not nearly as bad as you think.
Coal can be turned into oil through coal liquefaction at around 20$/barrel.
The Nazis did it and the South Africans are doing it right now. At some point, South Africa supplied over 60% of its economy with oil from coal liquefaction.
I don't know how much of the Nazi war machine was fueled with the process.
That said, a massive oil crisis looks to be inevitable in the next few years but THERE IS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE TO CRUDE OIL. We have lots of coal, enough at least for several decades especially if we quit wasting coal on electricity generation.
If the Nazis and the South Africans could do it, so can we.
It won't be pretty for the enviroment of course but it appears unlikely that we will see a "dieoff" or "powerdown" scenario in the next half century.
BTW, the South African company doing coal liquefaction is called SASOL, Ticker: SSL.

[MonteQuest]

Shawn,

The best thing you could have done was to post this subject. It helps us all. I am an EMT, enviromentalist, and a former National Park Ranger. For the last 35 years, I have been up against this wall of which you speak. Mostly, finding myself feeling like I was from another planet, and being alienated due to my concerns over the environment.

I learned two things:

First, that my feelings were not an isolated case. After terrible vehicle accidents, we would have a debriefing of sorts; kinda like telling everyone what you saw, heard, and smelled at the accident scene. Once you hear that others experienced the same emotions, you feel less isolated...and more normal.

Second: "Cast not your pearls before the swine." Save your pearls of wisdom and insight for those who wish to receive them. Otherwise, you will grow increasingly frustrated with each attempt to do so. Get yourself and your enthusiam out of the way. Let some other source get in their face, not you. In other words, don't try to feed them the whole bale of hay in one setting.

I was impressed with your candor, Shawn.

Monte

[EnviroEngr]

Consider also: http://peakoil.com/fortopic119.html
Anything else I find which addresses this, I'll Cross-Ref on this thread.

In a humanistic sense, it's about compassion for self and for others without division between self and others. We are about to embark on a collectivistic test of "Strength and Steadiness of Heart" that has never before been witnessed on this scale by the human race.

May we prosper in the midst of unprecedented challenges or may our unavoidable suffering be brief.

[MrPC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdvocatusDiaboli', 'S')hawn, the best scenario in my opinion is not nearly as bad as you think.
Coal can be turned into oil through coal liquefaction at around 20$/barrel.
The Nazis did it