[Jaymax]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', 'B')ut you did survive Jaymax right?

[Ghog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jaymax', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', 'B')ut you did survive Jaymax right?

[EnergySpin]

I said $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'n')o, after oil is gone there will never be anything but local communities or fascism

[Jaymax]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', 'I') said $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'n')o, after oil is gone there will never be anything but local communities or fascism

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jaymax', ' ')Rather than entering into debate, there is this "we've already proven you wrong" statement when no such thing has been achieved.

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')If TDP is so great, if the companies are going to be investing in it so much, why did Changing World Technologies need a 10 million dollar grant from the DOE to keep it's head above water? If it's going to help solve or significantly delay the crash of civilization, I would think there would be plenty of profit seeking private parties willing to shell out hundreds of millions, billions, even trillions of dollars.

Why is there still only ONE plant, producing less than 200 barrels a day of number four heating oil if this is the technology that will help save the freaking world?!

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course it is a stupid idea, that's why it is so apropos to your scenario. And its not so much about cost, but scalability.

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is the debate he is avoiding. He wants someone to prove him wrong, yet there is no possible way to do so. Just like he cannot prove he is correct. Nothing has happened yet!! This is in PREPARATION for PO. It just ends up being your opinion against another.

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd see why this extravaganza CANNOT be sustained ad infinitum at a large scale without irreversibly killing all terestrial life.

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') can't think of any other logical reason why somebody who claims they believe peak oil "will not happen" would spend so much time attempting to prove "peak oil will not happen."

[jtmorgan61]

I cut your argument down to what I consider to be the key points - let me know if I missed anything - jt

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')imple: All of the schemes to "prevent" Peak Oil are going to be ignored, not because of some psychological condition known as "De Nile" (spelling intentional) but because the corrupt ones in charge are having such a great time right now, and cannot see why they should bring this system to an end. This is because of the training they got at "Bizznuss" College - Get Rid Of Ethics, thus thereby getting rid of thinking about the future, especially one that might require the average Corporate Executive to do some "self sacrifice " (gasp!).

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a') sizeable majority (?minority) of the people here do not believe that solutions are not out there; they believe that the current cultural inertia will not allow them to be implemented OR that it will be easier for the system to murder people (read the proposal of your co-patrior Mr W Stanton)

[Ghog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m only saying that we will keep doing business-as-usual in the near term, because the corporations decide what we'll do for now and I doubt they'll suddenly decide to powerdown. That makes environmental degradation the problem that causes civilization to collapse in 20 or 50 or 100 years, not peak oil.

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nyway, we got off on the wrong foot and in the interest of trying to get these boards back to friendly discussion, you again have my sincerest apologies. I will try and 'hear' what you are saying in the future. We may not always agree though and don't always expect me or others to come back with scientific evidence as to why we don't. Sometimes we just don't. Seriously, have a great day!

[Petro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Petro', 'H')owdy Matt!

I don't get the point of this topic at all.

In the cont. US there are over 100k miles of gasoline pipelines alone. Not sure of the aggregate for petro-chems total. But, say something was invented; produced, etc., isnt it a little reassuring that at least there is some form of distribution for liquid alternatives?

[Concerned]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jtmorgan61', '
')In any market economy, someone is going to hit bottom. If oil increases in price another $20, maybe a few more of these dinosaurs will go down than would have otherwise. The remaining companies will continue to innovate and pass on the very modest increases in price due to oil to the consumer (e.g. jet fuel costs are 15% of airline costs. If oil prices hit $120/barrel tomorrow, then we'd see a $300 ticket jump to $345).

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ight now they are surely thrilled that oil is at $60/barrel and they're making record profits. But you're telling me that either a) they're not going to try to make even more profits, when they know how or b) they will allow economic apocalypse to occur because they can't even look 5 years ahead (at their bottom line, not something more nebulous like the environment)?

[DoctorDoom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Petro', 'C')ome on you know full well that these energy resources already have their own, appropiate, piplines. I don't think I suggested we try to run some ethanol through natural gas pipes. There isn't a cookie-cutter pipe that will carry everything. However, already traversing the gas/oil pipelines are rather dissimilar liquid fuels traveling the same pipeline. The different payloads are separated by an unglamorous device known as a 'hog'; basically a plug that travels with the payload but separating what heads and what trails. So...If one wanted to, say, use existing pipelines that once carried gasoline/diesel an instead use them to carry ethanol/methanol/biodiesel is that much of a leap?

[jtmorgan61]

I understand the your response and perspective, although I continue to think that at least *some* oil majors are going to look 5 years ahead. I mean, several of them are already in a state of declining reserves. I think most of 'em would rather spend their money on a McMansion in a peaceful society than a fortress in a postapocalyptic wasteland, although again I understand how you disagree. That said, to quarrel with your examples a bit...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1'). Killing off of the Native Americans and the profits that flowed from that.

2. The Atlantic Slave Trade

[holmes]

one caveat: your modern corporate culture is leaving little room for anything else. You see they NEED everything to survive and GROW. I mean everything. AND GROW AND GROW AND GROWand grow and grow. POP! So do we just stand there like a stupid bloated TV media junky pus gut puffy bellied women/humanoid brain dead on corporate logo ass rape sodomification and let the vacuum nozzel suck us up. The american indian was foolish and should have exterminated our wasp asses when they had the chance. They did have their chance but were mostly tribal and ecologically and spiritually pure. Niave. Im not naive nor pure. Ill fight and understand fork toungue. No amount of corporate media propaganda can sway my ass over to the greedy seedy pit of infernal hell. Im enslaved enough thank u. I want less slavery. Ah the facade is fraying. keep er going as the parts fly off. awesome way to go. I think savinars goal was to show u that Money talks all else walks. Values. My ass. Values. Morals. PPPPPPFFFTTTTT! The mainstream has lost all credibility with independent high IQ's. The whole gig is a sham. a lie. Manifest destiny has never died. Its still chugging away. Today isnt a long time ago. 150 years is nothing in my book. now 250 million now your getting into the past. Capitalism cares nothing about our vets. Can they make profits for the machine? no. They dont exist.