[michaelc888]

I've being talking to some people about peak oil and most of my
friends seem to feel that we can transition smoothly to other alternative forms of energy as pask the peak.

What about the fact that with the advent of the Internet; wouldnt a panic in the energy market become an instant disaster with people their selling stock on the internet. Before we could switch smoothly wouldnt the market react before we could ever put into place a solution using the free market economics?

Our financial system would be non functioning so we couldnt say start solving the problem because we couldnt even raise an IPO to get new solutions in place. Our 21st operates from the IPO world; there just wouldnt be time to do much about it with respects to getting finance to build a new energy device. Our capitial market would be ruined long before we could transistion.

At what point would people start to take notice? i mean everyday people like people in my office? I mention peak oil to them...and they seem confused like I was talking about an event that was never going to happen!

At what price would the general public be affect? $100? $200? $300?

I've been watch the price of oil and it seem to me that even at $55 the
market still seem robust enough to deal with it. Oil trader seem to trade it like just its just another commodity; if it up buy it...if its down sell it etc

Point is the free market is only going to do something about it once the price become very high. Then the general public will complain and then enough inertia is given to the situation to merit an outcry.

Question is at what price will the general public take note and call for action?

Goldman sach mention $100 to $135 for the comming years as if it was just another price that the market will pay for and people will go on about business as usually...No panic there...

Once prices reach the $135 region wont we be well into the peak? yet the market makers seem pretty relaxed about it? Infact the price of oil ACTUALLY went down after they announce it. Then bank or montreal announce saudi has reach peak...the market fell another $2 after that announcement too! The free market seems to be acting pretty dumb as in sell the news buy the rumour. I mean what price are they gonna say hey we need to get our act together! $500 a barrel? I suspect that the banks and market makers just see it as just another price on their screens like so many digits...it isnt real to them. Let someone else deal with it.

It seems to me that we are on the cliff and our governments are leaving it up to the banks and businesses to deal with an issue which is going to be the end of us!

Can someone explain to me why the financial lmarkets are discounting all the news? Like peak oil is just another peice of information to be factored into the options pricing program on some excel spreadsheet?

Mike

[RonMN]

your concerns are justified!

Listen to yourself...NOT your friends...

watch the movie oil-storm (tonight on FX at 7 or 8 PM)

[julianj]

Yes, you are on the right track

we've discussed this many times here - not able to come to absolute conclusions, but many people on this site believe that the economic effects of peak will be worse than the actual decline

check the Best of Threads forum or search "depression"

[aahala]

By their very nature, financial panics can not be accurately predicted. If
it were reasonably possible, we all could be millionares. And panics do
not have to have a reason at all.

Don't expect an annoucement on the nightly news that oil production peaked today(last month, last year) and it's all downhill from here.

Peakoil is more like global warming news. The news is out there for many
years, but some believe it early, some believe it late and some won't
believe it ever.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('michaelc888', 'C')an someone explain to me why the financial lmarkets are discounting all the news? Like peak oil is just another peice of information to be factored into the options pricing program on some excel spreadsheet?

[Raxozanne]

Does anyone know how often these reports are dished out by the DOE?
Is it evey week or every fortnight?
I think they appear on a Wednesday don't they?

[RdSnt]

Panic is not likely to be a direct function of oil prices, as someone already mentioned panic doesn't really need a reason.
Your point about the Internet being a good medium for sparking a panic is well founded. I would generalize the notion and say our instant access to information/news will start the wave. BushCo. is taking full advantage of the news cycle to generate fear and obedience, yet due to the ignorance of the general public overreaction is much more likely, and on a grand scale.
In the past, the slow speed at which news travelled acted like a buffer that mitigated panic.

The dangerous condition that the US economy is going to be a much bigger factor in triggering disaster than any hike in oil prices. Keep in mind that much of the day-to-day fluctuations in oil has to do with the USD changes, news and rumours rather than actual availability.
The moment of peak oil is not really relevant to the moment when we tip over the edge. PO is actually a moving target, with the collapse of the world economy causing PO to move out into the future somewhat. If things go very bad we could conceivably never reach PO.

Get it out of your head that the "free" market is going to solve the problems. Capitalism, as it is being practiced at the moment, is concerned with increasing shareholder value to the exclusion of all other factors. That means do whatever is necessary to generate a profit, a focus which is suicidal.
Even at the best of times it is not capitalisms job or responsibility to look after the future of people, just the corporation.

[pip]

Wednesdays at 9:30 eastern time. Unless there's a holiday and then they seem to be on Thursdays.

[KevO]

Quote of the day!


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('julianj', '
')check the Best of Threads forum or search "depression"

[strider3700]

I've always found that oil price displayed in the bottom right on CNBC an interesting thing to watch when I'm wasting time at home. But here at work they frown upon TV's in the office Anyways I went to add a stock ticker extension to firefox called stockTicker and it works great. It pulls the stocks from yahoo financials. Now the oil price that I'm used to watching isn't a stock, it's a future correct? Where on yahoo financials can I find this?

Or does anyone else have a suggestion on how to get this on my PC at work without me needing to load a page every few moments. A standalone program that will cram it into the task bar would also work for me.

[Graeme]

Someone was looking for a list of renewable energy stocks. I found this site. Look at top right corner. Plus articles and info on renewables:

http://www.renewableenergystocks.com/Co ... Energy.asp

[LadyRuby]

Thanks. Does anyone know of a mutual fund on alternative energy stocks? I've seen a number that focus on energy and will consider alternative energy but don't seem specifically focused on alternative energy (now at least).

[Eli]

I own vanguard vde energy fund and last night it gained almost a dollar in after hours trading.

Did anyone notice that there other energy funds and stocks took a large after hours jump?

I am thinking some big mutual fund must have shifted resoursces to make it jump that much.

[MicroHydro]

I have become somewhat concerned that several posters have been putting up press releases from obvious stock kiting scams. When companies you have never heard of with no prior sales breathlessly announce miracle discoveries that will save the world, and helpfully provide their stock symbol, (So you, my special friend, can get in on the ground floor!), hold on to your wallet. Ask yourself, do these stories sound rather like the notorious Nigerian letter?

The post below is a case in point, and is so extreme that it motivated me to start this thread. Recall the dot com companies, more than 90% of them went bankrupt, wiping out US$ 7 trillion in investor equity. They were too speculative to get listed on NYSE or AMEX, so these dogs like webvan.com or pets.com hung out on the fast and loose NASDAQ. When you see a stock symbol labeled OTC, be afraid, very afraid. OTC means 'over the counter' These are stocks too disreputable to be listed by any exchange. Imagine your alcoholic cousin who just got out of prison for fraud selling stock certificates out of the back of his rusty old Holden, and you won't be far from the truth.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')raeme
Heavy Crude



Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 231
Location: New Zealand
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solar Power Breakthrough; New Low-Cost Solar Energy May Replace Gas

Quote:
July 27, 2005 08:00 AM US Eastern Timezone
SALEM, Utah--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 27, 2005--Will solar energy ever overtake the oil market? The solar revolution may be closer than you think.
Breakthrough solar power technology developed by International Automated Systems Inc. (OTCBB: IAUS) may become the first solar to compete with gas. Low-cost energy produced by IAUS' new patented and patent-pending solar technology can be used to generate electricity or produce clean fuels such as hydrogen and green methanol (gasoline replacements) at a competitive price.
IAUS' unique thin-film solar panels can be produced at a fraction of the cost of today's photovoltaic solar panels. IAUS is on schedule to begin mass production of its solar panels by September 2005. Once in production, IAUS will be able to turn out nearly 200 megawatts of solar panels yearly, nearly 10 times greater capacity than a $100 million photovoltaic fabrication plant.
A solar area of only 100 square miles -- a size of land that equals only nine percent of the state of Nevada -- can generate enough electricity for the entire United States.

[Eli]

I just skimmed over your post nice one by the way thanks for the info.

Where can I buy some International Automated Systems stock?

Wow the digital wave thing sounds awesome.

[EnergySpin]

The following reaction powered the .DOM and the alternative energy economy:
Rich Stupid Investor+Scum Artist --> Poor Wise Man+Rich Scum Artist (fiateconomization)

The system can power multiple bubbles due to the following slow reactions:
Poor Wise Man --> Poor Stupid Man (De-wisesation)
Poor Stupid Man + Cheap Credit --> Rich Stupid Man + Debt (cheap-creditazation)

Note how cheap credit recycles "investors" at the expense of common sense

[Graeme]

OK, I confess, I have been taken in by fraudulent scumbags. There seems to be quite a lot of misleading information on the Internet even on reputable web sites like the BBC! Frankly, it is difficult to trust any source on the Internet. I had no intention of promoting this company as one that people should invest in! I was merely trying to provide positive information. If people want to invest in alternative energy stocks, they should do very careful checks before doing so. In view of this, I want to ask others members of this group, who have had experience in investing, how they should do these checks. One that springs to mind is WHOIS but please let others do the advising for investing!

[OilsNotWell]

Even worse than OTC are the "Pink Sheets"...

There are even, believe it or not, some definite cult like followings set up around some of these issues...

Like this one:

CMKM Diamonds Inc. (Pink Sheets:CMKX)

Some folks investigated into this a little bit and went and photographed their supposed diamondiferous-bearing drilling site in Smeaton (Canada) and posted it on the web ...and it was a frickin' garbage dump! Yet go onto some investment boards and hear these cuckoos pump this massively diluted stock (they issued something like 700 BILLION shares!!!) all day long!

Stockwatch

I can't find the pics now, but I assure you I saw them myself, and it was amazing how someone thinks they can pay $100 for a million shares (I'm not kidding! The stock is worth something like .00001 cent or something ridiculous like that and believes they'll make a million bucks when it gets to dollar...)

Now just watch...we'll get a few of these nutters in this thread because I posted this...ready to flame anyone who dares suggest that this company which has so many regulatory problems, to say nothing of the fact that hasn't really made any money is going to be the next big thing.

Google them...the 'market millionaires' board is full of these cultists...

Oh...did a bit more research and they have, within the last week, had their stock registration pulled...in a scathing judicial decision...and the promotors are STILL trying to promote the thing....

Stockwatch

Morbidly fascinating story there...

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilsNotWell', 'C')MKM Diamonds Inc. (Pink Sheets:CMKX)

[MacG]

This must be the ultimate indicator! When the spam filter start to intercept mainly energy proposals, we will roughly be there!