[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut while I'm thinking about Trump. I'm not 100% convinced he enjoys being president. Its not all that much fun for him unless he is at a rally. He likes those. But the real aspect of the daily grind, he simply doesn't like the process of politics. Nor does he really understand it all that well. It would not surprise me if he doesn't run again.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', ' ')And I realize that his base likes the tweeting but I can't help but think he might have been the most effective President of all times if he didn't have a twitter account or access to social media of any kind and was managed better with regards to statements to the press (ie. read the script and don't put in your own descriptors which the press jumps on).

[evilgenius]

Does it matter very much if there is a wall if afterward the country becomes some version of Stalag 13 from Hogan's Heroes? The Great Wall didn't work because the people who wanted across it found out they could just bribe the guards to let them cross. There is no will to prosecute those who hire illegals. There is no will to change the process of immigrating to the US, so that the demand for the labor which supports the situation is properly met, with citizen workers or guest workers whose intentions meet a nationally understood consensus concerning their validity. The emotional restriction of people from becoming citizens which cites their illegality flies in the face of reason. It reveals a level of doubt about the ability of America to enculturate those who come here that would have you believe we would become them rather than they becoming us. The issue is actually over whether we want a form of slavery to exist here, wherein a certain class of workers has fewer rights. At its core this issue is about a necessary aspect of monetarist thinking, wage suppression. We are quite happy with the vast majority of wealth flowing to the top. We are much less happy with a division of that wealth that renders easy to understand handles for grasping it obsolete.

[Newfie]

Evil,

That may all be true, but not for me

I want a USA that a far lesser population than we do today, something that is arguably sustainable. We don’t have to know exactly what that is, we just need to know ya fewer, way fewer, than we have. I can get behind some small amount of immigration for sxceptional reasons.

Once we get down to a sustainable level then we can talk Immigration. Want to get there faster? Fine let’s reduce consumption so the sustainable population goes up.

First principals. It none of the pols are talking sense.

[KaiserJeep]

Make no mistake, the First World severely victimized the Third World when it gave them medicine, internet, mechanized agriculture, ICE vehicles, etc. We enabled a huge population explosion. In the present case, the Catholic Church also played a role, both in a histoprical sense and a present anti-birth-control sense, in the exploding South and Central American human populations.

It does not matter how we stop it, but an open Southern border means near-term death for the relatively well-off North American countries of Canada, Mexico, and the USA. Personally, I believe that the place to control immigrants is the 541-mile long border between Mexico and Guatemala, but that's just me. If Mexico won't control immigration, the USA must.

An open border means ever-increasing numbers of refugees. What is necessary to survive the effects of Peak Oil is a declining North American population in Canada, Mexico, and the USA. We get there via a closed border, enhanced coastal patrols, and enhanced port security.

This is an extremely important issue. If it takes actual suffering in the USA to resolve the R vs. D spending impasse, so be it.

I call on POTUS Trump to veto every single spending bill for any government function whatsoever, that does not contain the $5.7B earmark for the immediate construction of a wall on the S border of the USA.

I further ask that the salaries of both Senators and Congresspeople be suspended until the entire remaining government is funded, and only after border wall construction begins.

[yellowcanoe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'M')ake no mistake, the First World severely victimized the Third World when it gave them medicine, internet, mechanized agriculture, ICE vehicles, etc. We enabled a huge population explosion. In the present case, the Catholic Church also played a role, both in a histoprical sense and a present anti-birth-control sense, in the exploding South and Central American human populations.

It does not matter how we stop it, but an open Southern border means near-term death for the relatively well-off North American countries of Canada, Mexico, and the USA. Personally, I believe that the place to control immigrants is the 541-mile long border between Mexico and Guatemala, but that's just me. If Mexico won't control immigration, the USA must.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'E')vil,

That may all be true, but not for me

I want a USA that a far lesser population than we do today, something that is arguably sustainable. We don’t have to know exactly what that is, we just need to know ya fewer, way fewer, than we have. I can get behind some small amount of immigration for sxceptional reasons.

Once we get down to a sustainable level then we can talk Immigration. Want to get there faster? Fine let’s reduce consumption so the sustainable population goes up.

First principals. It none of the pols are talking sense.

[Newfie]

Ah, old men dreaming!

Carry on.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
Adding lots of low skilled folks to the mix, with the obligation to take care of them seriously impedes that goal.

[Cog]

Perhaps they would be better off taking care of the people in their own country.

[Newfie]

And we would be better off taking care of ours here.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
Adding lots of low skilled folks to the mix, with the obligation to take care of them seriously impedes that goal.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', ' ')

I don't see the problem, until people want and expect a bunch of stuff they didn't earn.

[Newfie]

I have a problem with this line of argument, that there is some FUNDAMENTAL difference between immigrants and citizens.

They are all human and share a common genome. Cut ‘em up and put them under a microscope and they are functionaly identical.

What differences exist are due to different circumstances. The differences will and do degrade over time. They will be palpable for 1 or 2 or maybe 3 generations, but pretty quickly we all adjust and adapt to the environment we are in.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I') have a problem with this line of argument, that there is some FUNDAMENTAL difference between immigrants and citizens.

They are all human and share a common genome. Cut ‘em up and put them under a microscope and they are functionaly identical.

What differences exist are due to different circumstances. The differences will and do degrade over time. They will be palpable for 1 or 2 or maybe 3 generations, but pretty quickly we all adjust and adapt to the environment we are in.

[Cog]

We are full up. Let the Central Americans diversify somewhere else. We are already more diverse than any other country on the planet.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')e are full up.

[Cog]

Look trying to shuffle off your low educated, criminal and disease ridden population, who couldn't even cut the mustard in their home country, is a great plan for central America, but the US doesn't want to be part of it.

They can apply for a VISA in their home country and if they seem useful to us we might let them in. The last thing we need is more uneducated and low skilled people making the trip up here for nothing.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'L')ook trying to shuffle off your low educated, criminal and disease ridden population, who couldn't even cut the mustard in their home country, is a great plan for central America, but the US doesn't want to be part of it.

.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')e are full up.