[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeW', 'I') don't think many Americans outside those in our military would have that kind of courage if foreign tanks were patrolling our streets.

[TrueKaiser]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') agree the the videos they create arent as well produced as the ones we see from a birds eye view of some bomber aircraft as hundreds or thousands of pounds of explosives careen towords a "identified target" in the middle town .
There are cultural differences reflected in these videos , but i cant see that one shows a more cival means to war . Both have a simular purpose and are only justified by the mind ofthe viewer. Neither video was created just for a grin . killing is killing is killing.

[hoplite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Muffloj', 'H')ow do you think Texas would react to being "liberated" by a foreign nation .

[gg3]

According to the definitions used by a friend of mine in the Army, who is highly critical of official policies, JoeW is exactly correct.

Terrorists specifically target noncombatants. Insurgents specifically target combatants. Occasionally there is some crossover in outcomes, but that does not invalidate the generality.

BTW, originally, American policy on Iraq attempted to use the term "terrorists" for *both* types, and didn't like the use of the term "insurgents" because that lent a sense of legitimacy to the hostiles (i.e. granting that certain hostiles are engaged in warfare per se).

[k_semler]

Insurgent:

1. a person who takes part in an armed rebellion against the constituted authority (especially in the hope of improving conditions)

2. guerrilla: a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment

3. in opposition to a civil authority or government

1975 replay, anyone?

[whereismymonkey]

Insurgants are pissed off citizens who have nothing to loose. Our bombs/ bullets killed there mother, brother, sister, daughter, uncle, friend whatever. It destroyed there house, life ect. Without these so called pissed off citizens, i mean insurgents we have no justification in being in iraq anymore. The kill rate is about 1 : 100 US to iraqi "insurgant". I know that i personally would be rather homicidal and angry if i was in there situation.


Also some of the people here are generalising things to much. We have killed close to 100 000 iraqi's. The occasional random murderous attacks, on innocent people by "insurgants" are more than likely the hard core terroists. There are unfortunately a small percentage of true terroists there, the rest are pissed off citizens.

[whereismymonkey]

Insurgants are pissed off citizens who have nothing to loose. Our bombs/ bullets killed there mother, brother, sister, daughter, uncle, friend whatever. It destroyed there house, life ect. Without these so called pissed off citizens, i mean insurgents we have no justification in being in iraq anymore. The kill rate is about 1 : 100 US to iraqi "insurgant". I know that i personally would be rather homicidal and angry if i was in there situation.


Also some of the people here are generalising things to much. We have killed close to 100 000 iraqi's. The occasional random murderous attacks, on innocent people by "insurgants" are more than likely the hard core terroists. There are unfortunately a small percentage of true terroists there, the rest are pissed off citizens.

[Justamom]

speaks for itself.... unfortunately....

Yahoo! News (link)

[PlanComplete]

Might as well use Saddam as your source. Or better yet Mr. Moore.
No doubt things are not being shown but just a google news search shows her claims that the information about the visit to Iran was not published, where plain wrong.

On the same token someone can use the following to say that you are right but in the wrong way



Link

Both are biased news sources.

[muhandis]

One could say that Americans are living in an information vacuum with respect to the self-censorship of their press. Even the subtle differences between Canada and the US become vast when it comes to the evening news (although CanWest-Global does its best to tow the American line--! ).

I think that it must be difficult for Americans to accept that they do not have a 'free' press. But then is the press ever 'free'? In any country? One should remember that the media are businesses, businesses turn profits. Profits are generated by sales and advertizing which comes from audience. News becomes just another form of entertainment.

Maybe the American press is just telling Americans what they would like to believe? What gives better sales -- bad news or happy stories? (although personal fear can also sell well (e.g., crime and justice)).

If I want news on Iraq, the US or British press are the last places to look.

muhandis

[PlanComplete]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('muhandis', '
')
If I want news on Iraq, the US or British press are the last places to look.

muhandis

[jockc]

This link may be of interest

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Media ... ntrol.html

[BabyPeanut]

Truth, truth, truth, she wants to hear the truth.

Should somebody mail her every Peak Oil book and video in existance?

Does Huffington live in a world where energy is her birthright?

Would she care to be told that the truth is that it's her fault as much as anyone else who burns fossil fuels in order to live? If we all stopped doing that the war in Iraq would then serve no purpose but not a minute sooner.

[PlanComplete]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'T')ruth, truth, truth, she wants to hear the truth.

Should somebody mail her every Peak Oil book and video in existance?

Does Huffington live in a world where energy is her birthright?

Would she care to be told that the truth is that it's her fault as much as anyone else who burns fossil fuels in order to live? If we all stopped doing that the war in Iraq would then serve no purpose but not a minute sooner.

[smiley]

You want the truth?

How is this truth?

Last month's (june) harvest.

But everything is going swell.

And everyone who tells otherwise is simply reading the wrong papers.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Sgt. Chad M. Mercer 25
Signaller Paul William Didsbury 18
Spc. Rafael A. Carrillo Jr. 21
Spc. Robert E. Hall Jr. 30
Sgt. Manny Hornedo 27
2nd Lt. Matthew S. Coutu 23
Chief Warrant Officer Keith R. Mariotti 39
Chief Warrant Officer Steven E. Shepard 30
Spc. Charles A. Kaufman 20
Cpl. Carlos Pineda 23
Lance Cpl. Holly A. Charette 21
Petty Officer 1st Class Regina R. Clark 43
Pfc. Veashna Muy 20
Sgt. 1st Class Christopher W. Phelps 39
Cpl. Chad W. Powell 22
Sgt. Joseph M. Tackett 22
Cpl. Ramona M. Valdez 20
Sgt. Arnold Duplantier II 26
Spc. Christopher L. Hoskins 21
Spc. Nicholas R. Idalski 23
Cpl. Marin Milev 25
Sgt. James D. Stewart 29
Spc. Brian A. Vaughn 23
Pfc. Christopher R. Kilpatrick 18
1st Lt. Noah Harris 23
Cpl. William A. Long 26
Lance Cpl. Adam J. Crumpler 19
Master Sgt. Robert M. Horrigan 40
Master Sgt. Michael L. McNulty 36
Lance Cpl. Erik R. Heldt 26
Capt. John W. Maloney 36
Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class Cesar O. Baez 37
Lance Cpl. Jonathan R. Flores 18
Cpl. Jesse Jaime 22
Lance Cpl. Chad B. Maynard 19
Cpl. Tyler S. Trovillion 23
Lance Cpl. Dion M. Whitley 21
Pfc. Nathan B. Clemons 20
Pvt. Paun Georgiev 30
Pfc. Michael R. Hayes 29
Sgt. Anthony G. Jones 25
Pvt. Tsvetan Kamov 25
Pfc. Joshua P. Klinger 21
Spc. Anthony D. Kinslow 21
Sgt. Larry R. Kuhns Jr. 24
Lance Cpl. John J. Mattek Jr. 24
Sgt. Larry R. Arnold Sr. 46
Spc. Casey Byers 22
Cpl. Stanley J. Lapinski 35
Spc. Terrance D. Lee Sr. 25
Sgt. 1st Class Neil A. Prince 35
Lance Cpl. Mario A. Castillo 20
Lance Cpl. Andrew J. Kilpela 22
Lance Cpl. Dustin V. Birch 22
Lance Cpl. Daniel Chavez 20
Staff Sgt. Mark O. Edwards 40
Lance Cpl. Thomas O. Keeling 23
Sgt. David J. Murray 23
Lance Cpl. Devon P. Seymour 21
Cpl. Brad D. Squires 26
1st Lt. Louis E. Allen 34
Sgt. Roberto Arizola Jr. 31
Capt. Phillip T. Esposito 30
1st Lt. Michael J. Fasnacht 25
Pfc. Douglas E. Kashmer 27
Lance Cpl. Marc L. Tucker 24
Spc. Eric T. Burri 21
Lt. Col. Terrence K. Crowe 44
Lance Cpl. Robert T. Mininger 21
Spc. Brian M. Romines 20
Lance Cpl. Jonathan L. Smith 22
Cpl. Carrie L. French 19
Spc. Eric J. Poelman 21
Pfc. Brian S. Ulbrich 23
Staff Sgt. Justin L. Vasquez 26
Col. Theodore S. Westhusing 44
Cpl. Antonio Mendoza 21
Linda J. Villar 41
Staff Sgt. Virgil R. Case 37
Spc. Phillip C. Edmundson 22
Pfc. Louis E. Niedermeier 20
Staff Sgt. Shamus O. Goare 29
Chief Warrant Officer Corey J. Goodnature 35
Senior Chief Petty Officer Daniel R. Healy 36
Sgt. Kip A. Jacoby 21
Lt. Cmdr. Erik S. Kristensen 33
Petty Officer 1st Class Jeffery A. Lucas 33
Lt. Michael M. McGreevy Jr. 30
Sgt. 1st Class Marcus V. Muralles 33
Petty Officer 2nd Class Eric S. Patton 22
Master Sgt. James W. Ponder III 36
Maj. Stephen C. Reich 34
Sgt. 1st Class Michael L. Russell 31
Chief Warrant Officer Chris J. Scherkenbach 40
Petty Officer 2nd Class James Suh 28
Petty Officer 1st Class Jeffrey S. Taylor 30
Lance Cpl. Kevin B. Joyce 19
Maj. Duane W. Dively 43
Spc. Anthony S. Cometa 21
Staff Sgt. Christopher N. Piper 43
Sgt. 1st Class Victor H. Cervantes 28
Pfc. Emmanuel Hernandez 22
Sgt. Michael J. Kelley 26
Staff Sgt. Leroy E. Alexander 27
Capt. Charles D. Robinson 29 ')

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'Y')ou want the truth?

How is this truth?

Last month's (june) harvest.

[julianj]

I tire of posting the same things, but here we go.

1. The US/UK forces lost the Iraq war some time ago, about the time of Abu Ghraib. Hearts and minds etc.

2. Most of Iraq is in the hands of the Iraqi Resistance. But Shiites are also fighting Sunni. There aren't enough US/UK forces to control the country.

3. There are virtually no "foreign fighters" except for US/UK forces and their mercenaries, sorry "contractors" 20-40,000 troops. It's the Iraqis doing the fighting against the invaders.

4. The Iraq army/police/security forces will *never* amount to anything - remember Vietnam? It's the ARVN all over again. When you hear about effective battalions, remember they are Kurdish Pershmerga, conducting ethnic cleansing. Some of the best troops you fight, you actually trained, then they defected and shoot at the US with your own weapons.

5. The Iraqi Resistance has infiltrated everywhere. US intel = zero.

6. The British forces - call us Perfidious Albion - have done a deal in Basra - and let the Islamic theocrats take control, on condition they let the oil flow and don't shoot up our troops. Fine, it works.

7. Any power which can't even control the Baghdad Airport Road, really ain't winning.

8. Note the new constitution, can you say Islamic State? Was that worth 300+ billion, Oil minus, and all those dead?

You can easily find this stuff out for yourself, if you like to, try www.antiwar.com for starters. I really doubt that the average Iraqi Resister watches Fox News.

I think we say, Deal with reality before reality deals with you.

Withdrawal of all US/UK forces is the only option. "We" are the problem, not the solution.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ''')d like to see a list of all the young people that overdosed on drugs and alcohol or were killed by gang/drug activity last month. Twisted Evil

[MicroHydro]

How bad is US censorship? Well, I was able to get a realistic daily newspaper in the US only by ordering the Financial Times. Now let's be serious, this is the British equivalent of the Wall Street Journal, hardly a Marxist rag. But even the stuffy old establishment FT has vastly different reporting than the so called "liberal" US media, which are actually all rabidly nationalist and pro-war. America is as crazy as it is in large part due to the horrid state of American media, a toxic mix of propaganda and mindless tabloid stories. Even the so called "liberal" democrats in America believe completely in American exceptionalism and are pro-war.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PlanComplete', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('muhandis', '
')
If I want news on Iraq, the US or British press are the last places to look.

muhandis