[KaiserJeep]

EG, semi-auto guns, both handguns, rifles, and shotguns, are NOT "over the top", anymore than are automatic transmissions in cars. It is a matter of user preference alone. The ultimate long range sniper rifles, some of the deadliest small arms, capable of anonymous killing from a mile away, are bolt-action.

As for large capacity magazines, it sounds like you have never shot paper targets. Every time one has to break stance, eject an empty and load a full magazine, your score suffers as you reacquire the sight picture and squeeze off another round.

YES, marketing BOTH "real guns" and plastic toy guns benefit from building such to resemble the small arms used by the military. So what? That would be what people prefer to buy. Just the mere RUMOR that Obama was gonna ban the sale of such weapons sold 6.5 million AR-15 variants, it had far more impact than marketing.

One of the things that MIGHT POSSIBLY HELP is mandatory gun safety classes. I attended a Junior High School with a rifle range in the basement where .22 Short top-break single shot rifles were used. About a decade before I attended in the mid-1960's, they quit using it, and they stopped firearms safety training. The rate of firearms accidents has been increasing since.

In the absence of 100% firearms safety training, what was left was TV. Every night, we saw cowboys and cops and private detectives kill people with guns. A kid who gets NO TRAINING from his parents gets all of it from TV. TV teaches you that you put a gun in your hand, point it at another person, pull the trigger, and live happily ever after.

I only had one kid, and she was not at all interested in guns. However I insisted that she know and understand basic firearm safety. As a young kid, there are two rules:

1) If you or one of your friends finds a gun, do not touch it. Find an adult and tell them.

2) If one of your friends has a gun, do not touch it, do not say anything about it, do not confront them. Leave immediately, find an adult, and tell them.

There are other things to learn if the kid is interested in guns. Mine was not.

We had words with both her school and the local Girl Scout Council over this topic. Amazingly, both felt it was better to never mention the topic of firearms at all. As far as I am concerned, that is a tragedy waiting to happen. Pardon me for pointing this out, but if you never recieved basic gun safety training, you remain ignorant of an important topic. Your opinion of guns in the absence of such training is worthless.

If you want to learn more about this topic, sign up for a gun safety course in your community. Note that most such are free and don't even require you to own a gun, they will furnish a loaner. I have completed two such courses over the decades, in addition to some really intensive safety training in USCG Boot Camp in the early 1970s, involving the "big bad" M1911 .45 caliber pistol, and the M-16A1, a selectable fire weapon that had options for semi-automatic and fully automatic fire (yep a REAL "Assault Weapon", which we called an "Infantry Rifle").

This in spite of the fact that I have never had more than a brief interest in firing guns. I do own a 12g pump shotgun, plus my Father's M1911 service pistol (he was a career military officer), plus his first guns, a .22 rifle and a .410 shotgun, plus a muzzle-loading .45 caliber rifle that I used to fire (black powder guns are FUN but a lot of work). Maybe my grandkids will get those, if either shows any interest. But you can bet that they will both get safety training to go with the guns, and before they touch them.

[jedrider]

Evil has the right idea. It is RIDICULOUS at this juncture to either do nothing OR advocate that teachers carry guns. Pure ridiculousness as are most of the arguments put forth by the NRA and politicians in it's pay.

Owners of particular classes of guns need to be registered AND the number of their guns registered as well. Nobody is going to come breaking down doors, BUT as with drug offenses, for instance, they already break down doors and this should be handled no differently.

This is a step in the right direction. A state like Florida should not allow anyone under 21 to own an assault rifle. If they lived in Montana or Wyoming or Alaska, it is very different, of course.

The problem is that the NRA doesn't want ANY CHANGE AT ALL and that is the nub of the issue right now.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is that the NRA doesn't want ANY CHANGE AT ALL and that is the nub of the issue right now.

[KaiserJeep]

Thank you both for your opinions.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'T')hank you both for your opinions.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'T')hank you both for your opinions.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is that the NRA doesn't want ANY CHANGE AT ALL and that is the nub of the issue right now.

[Cog]

Oh it gets better. You know how the police say that only they can protect you and the citizen is not professional enough to protect themselves? Turns out the police officer assigned to the school hid outside and never tried to engage the shooter. Meanwhile a coach and a high school ROTC student sacrificed their life unarmed to help other students get away. Yeah go ahead and trust your life to cops who are minutes away when seconds count. Good job Barney Fife. At least you went home safe.

It has been policy in police departments since Columbine that you immediately engage a mass shooter without delay. The reason for that is most mass shooters will immediately flee or commit suicide when confronted with armed force.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sheriff-ar ... -shooting/

PARKLAND, Fla. -- The armed school resource officer assigned to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School "never went in" last Wednesday while a gunman opened fire on students with an AR-15 rifle, Broward Sheriff Scott Israel said. The massacre police say was perpetrated by former student Nikolas Cruz left 17 dead and 15 wounded.

Scot Peterson, the school resource deputy, was "absolutely" on campus through the event, armed and in uniform, Israel said Thursday. After seeing video and reviewing witness statements and Peterson's own statement, Israel said he decided to suspend Peterson without pay pending an internal investigation.

Peterson chose to resign, Israel said.

Israel said the video shows Peterson arriving at the west side of Building 12 and taking up a position, but he didn't go inside. Israel said Peterson "clearly" knew there was a shooter in the building and was outside for about four minutes. The shooting lasted about six minutes, Israel said.

When asked what the deputy should have done, Israel said, "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."

[KaiserJeep]

PBS News Hour gave a timeline. Peterson arrived on scene 2 minutes into the 6 minute shooting spree by Cruz. He did not ever enter the building and did not confront the shooter. During the period he was there and did not act two thirds of the total shots were fired. It is possible that had Peterson acted he could have saved 10-12 people.

I understand that he was out-gunned, and would have been confronting somebody with an AR-15 while armed with a 9mm pistol. I understand that a large part of his job is outdoors, and that during most of the year, wearing armor all day is not possible in the brutal Florida heat. However, he was a trained law enforcement officer confronting an untrained 19 year old "suspect" in the act of multiple murder. He did nothing.

[Cog]

For those who believe only muskets are protected by the 2nd Amendment, SCOTUS believes other wise.

DC V Heller

"Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35-36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding".

[onlooker]

I just heard that Trump wants to eliminate bump stocks. Maybe, somebody else can confirm that?

[KaiserJeep]

Again, PBS News Hour as source. Trump said in response to a very leading question from a media reporter, that such an action could be considered. He did not volunteer that it was already on the table nor admit to supporting the idea.

AFAIK Cruz did not use a bump stock in Florida. He had a conventional AR-15 and legal (in Florida) high capacity magazines for it. The bump stock user was the Las Vegas shooter in October 2017.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') just heard that Trump wants to eliminate bump stocks. Maybe, somebody else can confirm that?

[KaiserJeep]

IMHO there is little harm to a ban on bump stocks. Certainly, they are entertaining, but the weapon sights are not usable during bump firing, so one is reduced to "spray and pray" simulated full auto fire.

Speaking as one who had a few opportunities to fire the M-16A1 on full auto, that is fairly useless as well, the only legitimate use is to repel a mass attack, firing into a human wave. Which is what the Las Vegas shooter was doing, firing into a dense crowd.

Just on principle I don't like the precedent being set. But if Trump can trade off new sales of bump stocks against something of real value that the silly gun control people want, it's a bargaining chip.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'F')or those who believe only muskets are protected by the 2nd Amendment, SCOTUS believes other wise.

DC V Heller

"Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35-36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding".

[Cog]

@ evilgenius I would like to come over to your house and look for things you don't "Need". Obviously if you don't need it, you should not have it. Let me know when its a convenient time to swing by. Thanks

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '@') evilgenius I would like to come over to your house and look for things you don't "Need". Obviously if you don't need it, you should not have it. Let me know when its a convenient time to swing by. Thanks

[Cog]

You wish to explore the right to privacy by invading people's right to privacy?

Are you feeling well?

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou wish to explore the right to privacy by invading people's right to privacy?

Are you feeling well?

[KaiserJeep]

Most of the above posts are nonsense.

Spoons do not make people obese, people eating too many calories do that.

Pencils do not cause mis-spelled words, the pencil operator does that.

Guns do not cause mass shootings, sick people do that.

You are not going to fix sick people by restricting their access to firearms. That puts them into an internet search for ways of killing independant of firearms. You really, really don't want to go there, as there are some astonishing things to be found. Having such sick people fixated on small arms IMHO keeps the casualties minimal.