PeakOil is You
THE Rep. Roscoe Bartlett Thread (merged)
by Starvid » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 18:33:17
At the Peak Oil conference in Uppsala a couple of months ago I asked Simmons if he thought President Bush and the administration were aware of Peak Oil. He said that there are lots of people in Washington saying a lot of different things, some that oil will peak tomorrow, others that it will peak in 35 years. Simmons said it was very hard for a politician to know which scientist to believe in.
Last edited by Starvid on Sun 03 Jul 2005, 17:17:19, edited 1 time in total.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
-
Starvid - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3021
- Joined: Sun 20 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
- Location: Uppsala, Sweden
by Eli » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 22:52:41
Pete
Along with the Catholics that you seem to think need to "get fucked" you better add in the 1.2 billion Muslims. They tend to have large familys also, just look at the Muslim country's and their growth rates. And remember too some of the more fundamentalist among the Muslims like to chop off peoples heads and like to go on Jihads. Might as well lump in the Orthodox Jews too the first law for them is "be fruitful and multiply". Oh yeah and Mormons lets not forget those guys.
Maybe the depopulation program you talk about can be used to help off set the energy crunch we can make some power plants that use people for fuel and anyone who has more than one kid will be a "voluntary" fuel source. We should for practical purposes "volunteer" their kids as well because no one will be around to take care them.
The handicapped and mentally retarded and the aged could be the first "volunteers" and nursing homes could be renamed "Volunteer Centers".
Nazi Germany could be the model.
Starvid
I think what you said is probably closer to the truth. People are all over the map with when peak oil is going to hit.
Along with the Catholics that you seem to think need to "get fucked" you better add in the 1.2 billion Muslims. They tend to have large familys also, just look at the Muslim country's and their growth rates. And remember too some of the more fundamentalist among the Muslims like to chop off peoples heads and like to go on Jihads. Might as well lump in the Orthodox Jews too the first law for them is "be fruitful and multiply". Oh yeah and Mormons lets not forget those guys.
Maybe the depopulation program you talk about can be used to help off set the energy crunch we can make some power plants that use people for fuel and anyone who has more than one kid will be a "voluntary" fuel source. We should for practical purposes "volunteer" their kids as well because no one will be around to take care them.
The handicapped and mentally retarded and the aged could be the first "volunteers" and nursing homes could be renamed "Volunteer Centers".
Nazi Germany could be the model.
Starvid
I think what you said is probably closer to the truth. People are all over the map with when peak oil is going to hit.
-
Eli - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3709
- Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: In a van down by the river
by Eli » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 14:07:46
Pete
I appreciate the fact that you did not recommend euthanasia. But the fact is many people in this world hold a religious world view that they are not going to abandon simply because of PO.
And who knows how bad it will be? I am like a lot of people here, I know it is going to be a serious issue it is just a question of how bad. On a scale of one to ten, I fluctuate from a 5 to 11 just depends on the day.
The point is their are many billions of people in the world who are not going to agree to what some would call a modern and scientific solution to peak oil and over population. To them forced abortions and birth control violate their deepest and most cherished beliefs.
It is logical and reasonable to think that they are going to have to be forced into population reduction when they refuse to submit strictly based on scientific and logical reasoning.
A person of faith also reasonably thinks that it is by mankind's logic and greed that we got into this mess in the first place. And to them it is the hight of ignorance to think that by mankind's logic we are going to get out of it.
Remember too that Hitler's Germany was based on the best science of the day. It was highly influenced by the theory of Eugenics and Darwinism. And people gravitated to the idea because it was a logical solution to the problems of the horrible poverty brought on by the great depression. Hitler's scientific solution ultimately proved to be devoid of compassion and grace.
To me looking back at the whole history of mankind, if PO does prove to bring about world wide suffering and the greatest economic depression the world has ever seen. Mankind is more likely to produce another Hitler or Stalin rather than a Gahndi or Martin Luther King. Remember as well Stalin killed as many as Hitler and died a hero and a demigod. Hitler took his own life after he had plunged the world into world war and eliminated 6 million people. Gahndi and Martin Luther King were assassinated.
I was kind of shocked that my suggestion of what population reduction would have to look like matched that horrible ASPO article. If that article proves to be prophetic I think the cure to PO and over population will be worse than the disease.
I appreciate the fact that you did not recommend euthanasia. But the fact is many people in this world hold a religious world view that they are not going to abandon simply because of PO.
And who knows how bad it will be? I am like a lot of people here, I know it is going to be a serious issue it is just a question of how bad. On a scale of one to ten, I fluctuate from a 5 to 11 just depends on the day.
The point is their are many billions of people in the world who are not going to agree to what some would call a modern and scientific solution to peak oil and over population. To them forced abortions and birth control violate their deepest and most cherished beliefs.
It is logical and reasonable to think that they are going to have to be forced into population reduction when they refuse to submit strictly based on scientific and logical reasoning.
A person of faith also reasonably thinks that it is by mankind's logic and greed that we got into this mess in the first place. And to them it is the hight of ignorance to think that by mankind's logic we are going to get out of it.
Remember too that Hitler's Germany was based on the best science of the day. It was highly influenced by the theory of Eugenics and Darwinism. And people gravitated to the idea because it was a logical solution to the problems of the horrible poverty brought on by the great depression. Hitler's scientific solution ultimately proved to be devoid of compassion and grace.
To me looking back at the whole history of mankind, if PO does prove to bring about world wide suffering and the greatest economic depression the world has ever seen. Mankind is more likely to produce another Hitler or Stalin rather than a Gahndi or Martin Luther King. Remember as well Stalin killed as many as Hitler and died a hero and a demigod. Hitler took his own life after he had plunged the world into world war and eliminated 6 million people. Gahndi and Martin Luther King were assassinated.
I was kind of shocked that my suggestion of what population reduction would have to look like matched that horrible ASPO article. If that article proves to be prophetic I think the cure to PO and over population will be worse than the disease.
-
Eli - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3709
- Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: In a van down by the river
Update:Congressman Bartlett will have peak oil meeting in F
by thorn » Tue 12 Jul 2005, 10:14:14
Looks like it will be moved to late sept., They are trying to line up some more speakers. I'll post the date, time and place when they get it.
Congressman Roscoe Bartlett will have a peak oil meeting on July 25, 2005 9:00 am at Hood College in Frederick Maryland. It will be in the Whitaker Campus Center at Hood College.
Map to Hood: map
Keep an eye on his home page for details: link
He was hoping to have some speakers but I'm not sure who will show up yet. They will also have a solar power backup demonstration in the afternoon. Anyone live in the DC area??
Congressman Roscoe Bartlett will have a peak oil meeting on July 25, 2005 9:00 am at Hood College in Frederick Maryland. It will be in the Whitaker Campus Center at Hood College.
Map to Hood: map
Keep an eye on his home page for details: link
He was hoping to have some speakers but I'm not sure who will show up yet. They will also have a solar power backup demonstration in the afternoon. Anyone live in the DC area??
-
thorn - Lignite
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Tue 29 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
- Location: Maryland
Roscoe Bartlett on CSPAN right NOW
by dinopello » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 22:01:15
Roscoe Bartlett on CSPAN right NOW He really loves Matt Savinar.
-
dinopello - Light Sweet Crude
- Posts: 6088
- Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: The Urban Village
by dinopello » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 22:21:32
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Free', '*')bump* (wish I could get C-Span) At least in your country one politician is actually talking about PO, I have never heard "Peak Oil" out of the mouth from a single European politician.
Live stream at http://www.cspan.org/
-
dinopello - Light Sweet Crude
- Posts: 6088
- Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: The Urban Village
by lorenzo » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 22:59:19
Senator Bartlett just keeps pumping that one phrase in: "civilization as we know it, is coming to an end."
It's strange to see one individual say these words in a place where the world's most important decisions are taken, - and that place being empty when these words are uttered. Quite surreal!
Nonetheless, the words are forever on the record. And we have all been warned.
It's strange to see one individual say these words in a place where the world's most important decisions are taken, - and that place being empty when these words are uttered. Quite surreal!
Nonetheless, the words are forever on the record. And we have all been warned.
-
lorenzo - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 2184
- Joined: Sat 01 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
by Free » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 22:59:53
Wow that was absolutely great, good on him, I am a fan now! God I would have never imagined I could like a Republican!
His presentation was very clear and he brought the main points over very well, so even if somebody never heard of it (average Joe) could get it easily! He also used great examples, liket the energy output of a barrel of gasoline which would require 12 men to work a year, or the newly married couple which lives for 85 percent from the inheritance of their grandparents and only 15 percent from their income.
I also found it very good that he said we have to look at it as a challenge and not as a problem, and that before everything we have to do a clear assessment of the facts.
His presentation was very clear and he brought the main points over very well, so even if somebody never heard of it (average Joe) could get it easily! He also used great examples, liket the energy output of a barrel of gasoline which would require 12 men to work a year, or the newly married couple which lives for 85 percent from the inheritance of their grandparents and only 15 percent from their income.
I also found it very good that he said we have to look at it as a challenge and not as a problem, and that before everything we have to do a clear assessment of the facts.
-
Free - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
- Location: Europe
by dinopello » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 23:12:02
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Free', 'W')ow that was absolutely great, good on him, I am a fan now! God I would have never imagined I could like a Republican!
His presentation was very clear and he brought the main points over very well, so even if somebody never heard of it (average Joe) could get it easily! He also used great examples, liket the energy output of a barrel of gasoline which would require 12 men to work a year, or the newly married couple which lives for 85 percent from the inheritance of their grandparents and only 15 percent from their income.
I also found it very good that he said we have to look at it as a challenge and not as a problem, and that before everything we have to do a clear assessment of the facts.
His presentation was very clear and he brought the main points over very well, so even if somebody never heard of it (average Joe) could get it easily! He also used great examples, liket the energy output of a barrel of gasoline which would require 12 men to work a year, or the newly married couple which lives for 85 percent from the inheritance of their grandparents and only 15 percent from their income.
I also found it very good that he said we have to look at it as a challenge and not as a problem, and that before everything we have to do a clear assessment of the facts.
I agree, probably his best yet. He touched on almost every possibilty. Free, you may have missed it, but he also touched on the dieoff scenario at least once with the analogy (paraphrasing) - 'We are on a jet liner heading across the ocean and we now know we cannot make it with the fuel we have if everything stays the same - first thing we might do is toss out the luggage - and the next thing we might consider is tossing over half the passengers...'
Ironically, the house session ended with a request to concur on the senate highway bill!
-
dinopello - Light Sweet Crude
- Posts: 6088
- Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: The Urban Village
by eastbay » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 23:19:04
Seriously folks, I sat and watched it with my Significant Other and it was worth the shared time. There are now two PO enthusiasts in teh house instead of only one.
When this CSPAN segment is repeated find a loved one or a close friend, handcuff them to the couch, and MAKE them watch this show like I just did. You will likely win a convert.
It really, really is the best televised PO presentation I've ever seen.
When this CSPAN segment is repeated find a loved one or a close friend, handcuff them to the couch, and MAKE them watch this show like I just did. You will likely win a convert.
It really, really is the best televised PO presentation I've ever seen.
-
eastbay - Expert
- Posts: 7186
- Joined: Sat 18 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
- Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
by Free » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 23:31:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')I agree, probably his best yet. He touched on almost every possibilty. Free, you may have missed it, but he also touched on the dieoff scenario at least once with the analogy (paraphrasing) - 'We are on a jet liner heading across the ocean and we now know we cannot make it with the fuel we have if everything stays the same - first thing we might do is toss out the luggage - and the next thing we might consider is tossing over half the passengers...'
Ironically, the house session ended with a request to concur on the senate highway bill!
')I agree, probably his best yet. He touched on almost every possibilty. Free, you may have missed it, but he also touched on the dieoff scenario at least once with the analogy (paraphrasing) - 'We are on a jet liner heading across the ocean and we now know we cannot make it with the fuel we have if everything stays the same - first thing we might do is toss out the luggage - and the next thing we might consider is tossing over half the passengers...'
Ironically, the house session ended with a request to concur on the senate highway bill!
Yes I actually got half of the plane analogy, but I missed the part where he talks about throwing people out (I have to turn the volume down because I am at work), wow, that's radical and deservedly so!
Is there a possibility that this presentation is archived on C-span or somewhere else? Because even if it is quite US-specific I am sure it would win over many people here as well.
-
Free - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
- Location: Europe
by jmacdaddio » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 23:40:27
Rep. Bartlett comes across as approachable and avuncular. He avoids hysteria and he uses stories and examples that can help ordinary people understand PO. He is not condescending in the least. In that sense he is the anti-Kunstler: if he had enough exposure average Joes would listen to him, while average Joes would listen to Kunstler, change the channel, then idle their SUVs for an hour out of spite.
-
jmacdaddio - Lignite
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat 14 May 2005, 03:00:00
by BabyPeanut » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 01:16:24
It's good to see that after his secret talk with GWB he's still talking publicly about Peak Oil.
- BabyPeanut
- Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3275
- Joined: Tue 17 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
by Tyler_JC » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 02:10:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'S')eriously folks, I sat and watched it with my Significant Other and it was worth the shared time. There are now two PO enthusiasts in teh house instead of only one.
When this CSPAN segment is repeated find a loved one or a close friend, handcuff them to the couch, and MAKE them watch this show like I just did. You will likely win a convert. It really, really is the best televised PO presentation I've ever seen.
When this CSPAN segment is repeated find a loved one or a close friend, handcuff them to the couch, and MAKE them watch this show like I just did. You will likely win a convert. It really, really is the best televised PO presentation I've ever seen.
oooooh, you are only supposed to handcuff close friends and loved ones... That explains the whole affair with the police...
I have tried getting my family interested in PO, but only my mother seems to care and she just went out and bought herself a jeep...
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
- Tyler_JC
- Expert
- Posts: 5438
- Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Boston, MA