$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SumYunGai', '
')Why do you need an exit from nihilism?
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Humans are not intelligent.
Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Ibon » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 19:07:08
Because it feels better?
We have trained to over exercise our brain muscle and therefore have allowed it to dominate our perceptions when there are other centers out of which reality can be perceived. And those other centers can take one from linear time, which inevitably leads us to death, and add a vertical dimension, a depth to our existence. Most people make a conscious effort out of fear to avoid those depths and stay in cerebral territory. They don't know what they are missing.
Words to describe this inevitably sound like esoteric mumbo jumbo so I hesitate but here goes...There are cultures that have had rituals that exercise these other centers. For those that spend enough time in nature and who can shut down the internal chatter that acts as a constant cerebral barrier, there is a a sense of being that opens that connects one more directly to the natural world, it is a like a universal field that opens, that division of man and nature breaks down, some hunters know this space. Thinking ceases to dominate and your senses no longer filter reality through your rational brain that attaches words to everything. It is an immediate perception of reality and when you fall into this the sense of oneness is quite joyful. In that space there are no nihilistic thoughts, none of those perceptions of being a sentient mortal on a treadmill of linear time that lead you inevitably to death......no, in those moments there is a sense of unity that is actually religious, mystical, or any other word you want to use. Sacred works. You hold the nature then in deep reverence. It is not so much that life then takes on a deeper meaning. It is a perception that even supercedes meaning because the nihilist is right that there is no ultimate meaning. But if he stays only in rational cerebral awareness of this he misses the opportunity of a far deeper space.
Mumbo Jumbo? I never liked trying to put into words something that can not be understood anyway be the cerebral mind. I just know that in this space I experience great joy. What more can I say?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Tikib » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 08:05:37
You guys keep talking about the past AS IF it happened. But in no meaningful way did it. We only live in the present ever moving forwards until we are dead. Life has zero value. There is nothing to squander. Mental health is an illusion.
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Newfie » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 08:28:58
Ok. So what do I do with that info?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Newfie » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 08:34:27
Then what is the point of your posting? If it's nil, then here is no point, stop.
If not then what is it?
If not then what is it?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Tikib » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 08:53:42
Thats the second time you asked me how information was useful, why does information have to be useful?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Ibon » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 09:32:09
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tikib', 'T')hats the second time you asked me how information was useful, why does information have to be useful?
You seem to be invested in knowing the answer to that. Why would a nihilist care to know?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Tikib » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 10:09:48
The role of all life is to increase entropy. We go from nothing to nothing, how could we possibly gain anything from being alive?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by Newfie » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 11:15:57
Entropy is moving from a more ordered to a less ordered state.
1
a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
2.
lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
"a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme"
synonyms: deterioration, degeneration, crumbling, decline, degradation, decomposition, breaking down, collapse; More
But I take your point. From the perspective of a disinterested observer it could well be reasoned that humanities purpose is to increase, or accelerate entropy. Probably could be argued that is the purpose of any life.
Now, so what? What you gonna do with that info?
1
a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
2.
lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
"a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme"
synonyms: deterioration, degeneration, crumbling, decline, degradation, decomposition, breaking down, collapse; More
But I take your point. From the perspective of a disinterested observer it could well be reasoned that humanities purpose is to increase, or accelerate entropy. Probably could be argued that is the purpose of any life.
Now, so what? What you gonna do with that info?
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by SumYunGai » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 13:16:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tikib', 'd')ie like everything else.
Yes. It is true that life has no inherent meaning or purpose other than to increase entropy. But that is not the whole story. We like to think of ourselves as sentient beings, but there is no central seat of consciousness underlying this feeling. Consciousness itself is just an illusion created by our brains. Our brains are thresholding machines composed of competing neural centers that evolved at different times under different conditions, often for different purposes than what they are used for today. There is no you there. Free will is also an illusion. Our so called decisions are actually automatic, unconscious processes that we retroactively begin to justify about a millisecond later in the most recently evolved neocortex, where the illusion of consciousness originates. We can't even decide what our next thought will be. It just pops into our heads. We also vastly overrate our own individuality. Most of our thoughts are not even our own, but are instead shared with the larger group. Monkey see, monkey do. We receive conscious and unconscious signals from those around us and our brain unconsciously calculates the best move to meet our individual and social needs.
We love to think of ourselves as intelligent, self directed beings. But we are really more like robots. We are built and programmed from below by our genes, and unwittingly controlled from above by the Groupthink of those around us.
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Re: Humans are not intelligent.
by onlooker » Fri 18 Nov 2016, 13:37:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are built and programmed from below by our genes, and unwittingly controlled from above by the Groupthink of those around us.
That is a cogent observation Sum.. However, I have a slight problem with the notion we have no free will. Our free will in accord with your quote is greatly attenuated by these factors you cite. However, as per our cognitive abilities and our sense of intellectual consciousness or sentience, we possess an ability to deviate from our own urges and from the dictates of the larger society around us. Witness maverick pioneers like Galileo who dared question the astronomical norms of the time. He said the Earth revolves around the Sun not vice versa. Witness champions of movements to uplift the plight of humanity such as women suffrage or civil rights or national freedom etc. Note some of these people truly practiced self sacrifice and became martyrs thus going against their biological imperatives. We are NOT automatons. The science supports your assessments but it also reaffirms our unique niche as beings with an intellectual capacity to affirm their independence and assert their free will. The bounds you speak of while present are not chains, as we can deviate from said "programming" especially if either we know it is affecting us and/or have a compelling reason to do so"We are mortal beings doomed to die
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