I don't think specop is ignorant. I think he really believes what he says. He's just indoctrinated to the core. He represents complete submission to the powers that be, complete obedience to superiors, complete submission to market forces, and complete obedience to those who want to control him.
He makes the perfect slave of the Free Market. Exactly what any capitalist wants: a worker who doesn't resist and can be exploited at will.
Thank God most people on this planet have some courage left and form a block to defend their dignity, either by joining a union or by pushing the right button in the voting booth.
Meanwhile, I read that there's a lot of "hidden" unemployment in the US: people who are indeed jobless but have dropped out of the statistical system because they're no longer receiving social support.
On the other hand, the US has a thriving black labor market, with millions of cheap slaves doing unregistered work as fruit pickers and domestic workers.
PeakOil is You
Unemployment lies
by lorenzo » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 10:20:56
And then I wanted to add that the average income of the average worker in the US hasn't risen above 1970s levels.
GDP has grown quite well, but so has the GINI index. Just like Brazil, America is a two track society where inequality is reaching unimaginable levels.
GDP has grown quite well, but so has the GINI index. Just like Brazil, America is a two track society where inequality is reaching unimaginable levels.
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by Specop_007 » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 11:03:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'T')here's so many goddamn jobs available that for the past two months I've been spending at least an hour a day filling out and sending in application forms and not one hit yet. I've tried minimum wage jobs at burger places, even, anywhere.
Past two months, literally hundreds of applications filled out. Not one success. I don't know how it is in the rest of this country, but the job market SUCKS where I live.
Past two months, literally hundreds of applications filled out. Not one success. I don't know how it is in the rest of this country, but the job market SUCKS where I live.
Have you thought of moving? I know an Ag company is the a** end of Nebraska that may need some help. A bricklayer may need some help as well.
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by Specop_007 » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 11:09:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'I') don't think specop is ignorant. I think he really believes what he says. He's just indoctrinated to the core. He represents complete submission to the powers that be, complete obedience to superiors, complete submission to market forces, and complete obedience to those who want to control him.
He makes the perfect slave of the Free Market. Exactly what any capitalist wants: a worker who doesn't resist and can be exploited at will.
Thank God most people on this planet have some courage left and form a block to defend their dignity, either by joining a union or by pushing the right button in the voting booth.
Meanwhile, I read that there's a lot of "hidden" unemployment in the US: people who are indeed jobless but have dropped out of the statistical system because they're no longer receiving social support.
On the other hand, the US has a thriving black labor market, with millions of cheap slaves doing unregistered work as fruit pickers and domestic workers.
He makes the perfect slave of the Free Market. Exactly what any capitalist wants: a worker who doesn't resist and can be exploited at will.
Thank God most people on this planet have some courage left and form a block to defend their dignity, either by joining a union or by pushing the right button in the voting booth.
Meanwhile, I read that there's a lot of "hidden" unemployment in the US: people who are indeed jobless but have dropped out of the statistical system because they're no longer receiving social support.
On the other hand, the US has a thriving black labor market, with millions of cheap slaves doing unregistered work as fruit pickers and domestic workers.
Of course I believe it, because its true. My wife is losing her job end of the year. She knows it. She made 1 phone call to another company in the same field on Friday, and was dman near hired over the phone on the spot. People complain about "Oh I cant find work!". Well, that may very well be true. THEN MOVE! Life isnt a pretty flower in bloom, its rough and tough and will roll over you in a heartbeat if you let it.
In my case, if I ever get laid off I'm flat out screwed. The work I do is *highly* specialized. I figure even in the best of times there a handful of companies in the US that would hire me. Im guessing perhaps 10 that would even entertain thoughts of hiring me. 10 in the whole US.
My mom is a perfect example of how shitty it can be. She had a good IT job in the Caribbean. Perfect gig. Good pay, good benefits, used the company jet to travel and living in paradise. She got transffered to the corporate office in Woodbridge New Jersey. NJ is the ass end of the Earth compared to the Caribbean. Then she got laid off, bounced around in NYC for a while between various IT jobs. Finally she moved to Washington state. Clear across the country. Why?
Thats where a job was. And she took one hell of a paycut doing it. But, shes collecting a paycheck and paying her bills.
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by Specop_007 » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 11:13:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'W')hat has really happened in America?
In the 1950's and 1960's, a "common laborer" could expect to get a manufacturing job, and with it support his family, buy a house, send his kids to college, and even expect a decent pension!
That type of option has mostly become a thing of the past. Today the laborer entering the market, even in Union America, is lucky to be able stay above the national poverty level, with minimal benefits and no company sponsored pension plan.
The only avenues to reach prosperity from poverety today are advanced college degrees or entrepreneurialism. And like Eurpope, free entrepreneurialism is slowly being legislated and taxed away in this country.
It looks like we are headed for a two-class society.
In the 1950's and 1960's, a "common laborer" could expect to get a manufacturing job, and with it support his family, buy a house, send his kids to college, and even expect a decent pension!
That type of option has mostly become a thing of the past. Today the laborer entering the market, even in Union America, is lucky to be able stay above the national poverty level, with minimal benefits and no company sponsored pension plan.
The only avenues to reach prosperity from poverety today are advanced college degrees or entrepreneurialism. And like Eurpope, free entrepreneurialism is slowly being legislated and taxed away in this country.
It looks like we are headed for a two-class society.
Foriegn competition, to put it simply. You can thank NAFTA, WTO and various other free trade agreements for that. The Chinese have virtually ran our manufacturing base right into the ground by doing what we did at 25% of the cost. And for most aspects, doing it just as well. While the quality is a bit less its "good enough" for most applications.
Hell, theres a case of 2 very, very large forging companies that are gone because of the Chinese. The Chinese came in and started making castings at about 1/5 of what the domesics were making it at. They couldnt compete. The 2 largest companies in the US now? Gone. Nothing left. The Chinese ran them right into the ground, then once the competition was eliminated they jacked the prices up 3 times what they were selling at. And thats STILL almost 50% less then what the American companies were selling for.
And you wonder why I'm mightily looking forward to PO? To run those goddamned Chinese bastards right back into the 3rd world stone age they came from.
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by MD » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 11:19:21
Unfortunately Specop there is little to no chance of going back to the 60's, unless there is another world war that leaves Asia and Europe in ruins like the last one with the US coming through unscathed.
The middle class miracle in the US can be mostly attributed to WWll and cheap fossil fuel. I don't expect or see a repeat.
The middle class miracle in the US can be mostly attributed to WWll and cheap fossil fuel. I don't expect or see a repeat.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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by Specop_007 » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 11:42:50
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'U')nfortunately Specop there is little to no chance of going back to the 60's, unless there is another world war that leaves Asia and Europe in ruins like the last one with the US coming through unscathed.
The middle class miracle in the US can be mostly attributed to WWll and cheap fossil fuel. I don't expect or see a repeat.
The middle class miracle in the US can be mostly attributed to WWll and cheap fossil fuel. I don't expect or see a repeat.
I'll agree with little chance....in the short term.
In the long term, barring war, PO, disease etc etc I think eventually it will happen. As the Chinese get more of a taste of the 1st world they'll want higher wages. If we reinstated trade tariffs as well, we could once again become competitive on the global market. Granted, it would take a long time, and I can agree it will never be what it once was but there is a chance of regaining some of the ground we lost.
Ah well, wish in one hand shit in the other, see which fills up first right?
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