[Chuckmak]

discuss.

[Specop_007]

The day the liberals/Democrats finally take away all our gun rights is the day we lose all our civil liberties.
Which is why it confuses the hell out of me why people would even think of checking a D earmarked candidate on the voting card.

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he day the liberals/Democrats finally take away all our gun rights is the day we lose all our civil liberties.
Which is why it confuses the hell out of me why people would even think of checking a D earmarked candidate on the voting card.

[Jaymax]

Can proper multi-party politics (ie: what most of the rest of us call democracy) ever emerge in the US system?

--J

[Jack]

It depends on what, precisely, you mean by civil liberties.

We speak of gun rights - but not so many years ago, one could go out and purchase a new machine gun for a relatively modest price. That's no longer true, and is unlikely to be true in the forseeable future.

Freedom of speech? There are any number of prosciptions to what we can say and write today, versus what was acceptable a few decades ago.

The SCOTUS came up with an interpretation of property rights that strikes me as a remarkable curtailment of individual rights.

One is completely free to go to work, to discuss sports, to watch mainstream television and read popular books. I expect these freedoms will continue indefinitely. But with regard to more controversial subjects, our freedoms today are but a shadow of what they once were. Where one draws the line, thus designating having rights versus not having them, I do not know.

[RonMN]

Read the history books...

1- 2nd amendment get's thrown out.

2- the right to free speach quickly evaporates.

3- all other rights are now gone!

It all begins with gun ownership for the average joe/jane!!!

[zed]

I find it unlikely that a "proper" multi-party politics will emerge simply due to the winner-take-all alignment of presidential elections. As long as the electoral college system persists, it is unlikely that more than two parties can ever have legitimate shots at the presidency. Which of course structures the entire nation's political structure along the lines of two parties.

I do think that liberalism as embodied by the Democratic party has reached a dead end in the US. The Democratic party has become 'Republican lite' and the disagreements between the two parties seem to mainly consist of stuff like gay marriage. There is ideological room for a party which opposes energy wars, believes in sound energy policy, doesn't worship "free trade", etc. I wouldn't hold my breath for change though - the last set of successful leaders who threatened the Washington consensus (the Kennedy brothers) were both shot dead in public places.

[Jack]

Actually, I think multiparty politics could easily be accomplished.

That's different from electing a non-major party president, of course.

If a party with a strong message (however defined) and a charismatic candidate (again, however defined) ran for a position in a state legislature, a statewide election, or a congressional seat, they might have a chance. From that position, they could promote the party message and build.

Ask yourself - if some hypothetical third party controlled 5 seats in the U.S. Senate today, would they have influence? Could they cut deals?

The problem is, most third parties fixate on electing a president, waste their resources in that Quixotic quest, and quickly break apart in some idiotic squabble. Worse still, they tend to have rather bizarre and incredible candidates.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'W')e speak of gun rights - but not so many years ago, one could go out and purchase a new machine gun for a relatively modest price. That's no longer true, and is unlikely to be true in the forseeable future.

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'W')e speak of gun rights - but not so many years ago, one could go out and purchase a new machine gun for a relatively modest price. That's no longer true, and is unlikely to be true in the forseeable future.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'A')s far as real rights, free speech is the biggie. I hope this is one freedom our country can keep for a very long time, despite Bush, Inc.s many efforts to take it away.

[Ludi]

I choose "none of the above."

I have to say it, I haven't personally had any of my civil liberties curtailed. I think there is fear, perhaps justifiable, that liberites will be curtailed, but until they are, we should enjoy them and exercise them, to the best of our ability.

[UIUCstudent01]

I'm not worried about gun rights... Those won't end as there are too many nuts around.

It's more like freedom of the press I worry about. If something isn't in the mainstream press, it isn't credible. Control that, and you control 95% of the thoughts that go in people's heads. People start debating Michael Jackson or comment on the 5th white girl to have gone missing. Or, control the debate with careful language or some-such. (But we still have blogs! And they've gotten mainstream coverage...)

The fact most people right now are just doing their thing and watching 'reality' T.V. isn't helping. Any real civic action will come from crisis - and frankly, people haven't been exercising it and it seems if our complex system goes down... we're all screwed.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'i')'m sure according to the average british citizen in 1777, we americans were the "terrorists"

speaking of our founding fathers.

[Aaron]

Worth noting that despite any words on parchment, or perhaps in spite of them, the only enduring measure of freedom anyone has ever enjoyed issued from the power created by wealth.

Or as a friend used to say...

Anyplace is paradise if you can afford it.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'W')orth noting that despite any words on parchment, or perhaps in spite of them, the only enduring measure of freedom anyone has ever enjoyed issued from the power created by wealth.

Or as a friend used to say...

Anyplace is paradise if you can afford it.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he day the liberals/Democrats finally take away all our gun rights is the day we lose all our civil liberties.
Which is why it confuses the hell out of me why people would even think of checking a D earmarked candidate on the voting card.

[savethehumans]

Anyone who says we don't have optimists in this forum needs to check out how many people are voting that it's gonna take 10 WHOLE YEARS to lose all our civil liberties! That's not just optimistic--that's delusional!

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'W')e speak of gun rights - but not so many years ago, one could go out and purchase a new machine gun for a relatively modest price. That's no longer true, and is unlikely to be true in the forseeable future.

[fossil_fuel]

great post, i only have one issue:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen was the last time SA weapons were the standard issue weapon to the millitary?