[AgentR11]

I was not suggesting an "all A is in B"; but rather, an "if in B then A." condition.

[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Is this an enduring, evolutionary intelligence or is it just a flash in the pan ?

[SeaGypsy]

Another factor is that many western couples using the estrogen pill for extended periods of time find that their fertility is severely compromised when they decide to stop it. Apparently the female immune system can build resistance- spermicide to a particular 'donor'. Personally I was quite sure I was 'shooting blanks' after 10+ years in 3 different pairings open to pregnancy with no conceptions- all with European women in their 20's. Eventually I married an Asian aged 21 when I was 40 & she was pregnant pretty much immediately- much to my surprise, & we now have 2 very healthy & bright daughters.

[JV153]

What about the increase in gullibility ?

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JV153', 'W')hat about the increase in gullibility ?

[SeaGypsy]

I worked in the arts for over a decade, then medical support services, 7 years, then logistics. The IQ descended as the quality of the people rose. The biggest assholes I met through work were art gallery owners & patrons, the most confused people were in medical & the most decent & straightforward are in JIT logistics.

[Newfie]

Just a quick observation......two of the smartest people I have ever had the privledge of working with were illiterate. Another was "just" a lineman.

I've had some stone stupid BA's and a Wharton MBA that apparently could not file alpha/numerically. Then there was the PHD who would not wear his glasses when reviewing prints. Only time I've ever seen some one put two different North arrows on a drawing, then argue with me that one was the North arrow for the border. It got worse from there. He did a lot of damage.

Once I had to pitch my linemans wrench at my "groundman" because he was standing in the middle of the tracks with a train coming, blowing its horn, me screaming and he was trying to catch rain with his mouth agape, like the turkey he was. I missed him but caught the rail and broke him out of his meditation. Last I saw of him because I refused to be with the idiot. He was Licensed Professional Engineer.

When I was in the CG they gave us extensive tests to assure our ability to finish the A school we were assigned. Even then we had a 30+ failure rate, for which you got sent to someplace like French Frigate Shoals for a year. Lots of incentive to succeed. I think Gary KJ knows what I mean.

But we don't do that for colleges. Take the PHD above. Math major? Sure. But he had ZERO spatial reasoning, just continental sized ego. He would never have made it through A school.

[SeaGypsy]

Yep Newf, it's who designs the tests, determinism & definitely cultural. What is currently defined as 'high IQ' as determined by PhD's is 'likelihood of achieving a PhD'. Lots of people couldn't give a rat's bum about PhD's or the skills required to get one. If you don't care a fig for something you aren't going to put the energy in. Working in remote aboriginal communities for years, every day I saw people doing very, very stupid things- in a white constructed environment- the same people would catch more fish with a handline & a butterknife, from the riverbank, than whitiez who considered themselves experts, using $100,000 boats with sounders & $1000 rod & reel kits. I could go on & on about intelligence & context, have seen way more than enough to believe it is mostly a load of crap invented by the elite to put everyone around them down.

[careinke]

To paraphrase: If you judge intelligence on how well you can climb a tree, the squirrel well be a genius, and the dolphin will be a moron.

[KaiserJeep]

I think the gist of the concept we are skirting around is that in a normal jungle or plains environment, the smarter apes lived longer because they were better at avoiding hungry predators. The larger stronger tribe of apes was also better able to drive off competing tribes from encroaching on their territory or eating their food. Natural selection produced both smarter and more social apes, in a predator-filled and competitor-filled environment.

Today the environment is very different. You live in your own artificial cave with a locked door, and don't need to socialize to survive - and as contentious a place as is PO.com, it satisfies that same socialization urge that used to demand that we be collecting food surrounded by tribe members, to keep the leopards and lions from eating us. Social outcasts don't get eaten any more, they still get the same government dole check as yourself - so you need a gun, and a bone-chilling level of inner city crime results from the frustrated former survival practices, now useless.

Meanwhile, in the tonier suburbs, one competes at the office via the size and elegance of the residence, the car, and the attractiveness of the trophy spouse. On weekends, one still competes, at the golf course and other venues - but none of this is real, either - the losers don't get eaten by predators, they are forced to live in smaller caves with less attractive spouses and older cars.

Natural selection has ended today. After the oil glut subsides and we don't have enough food or even a government pretending to care about everybody, evolution starts up again. We sort ourselves into those that eat and those that get eaten - only we are both predator and prey, as in the past when the glaciers came and forced us into caves, where the fossil records preserved evidence of both group hunting and cannibalism all over the world.

It will not happen overnight. I believe it will take something like a century and a half - but the start of that century was 3-4 decades ago. Our parents were in charge at American civilization's peak - were are the first post-peak generation.

Nor did we really do anything wrong - we are no bigger screw-ups than were our parents - it's just that the oil is running out, and that is a very large and so far unsolvable problem. But speculating that we will get wiser and behave smarter is still foolish, we are still today those same plains apes that left Africa approximately 60,000 years ago. The glaciers come and go several times before the human race is noticeably different - evolution happens at a speed slower than "glacial".

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'T')o paraphrase: If you judge intelligence on how well you can climb a tree, the squirrel well be a genius, and the dolphin will be a moron.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'T')o paraphrase: If you judge intelligence on how well you can climb a tree, the squirrel well be a genius, and the dolphin will be a moron.

[Newfie]

It's MUCH more complicated than that. I have a hearing issue, almost NO tonal short term memory. It effects my socialization in this culture to some extent. If I lived in a culture whose language used tonal inflections I have would be considered a moron.

[ralfy]

Hence, Diamond's reference to the city and the jungle dweller:

decline-in-iq-t72346.html#p1299236

[JV153]

Suggestibility : (click here) :

example 1 : Star Wars, basic.. slow and pleasant voice .. very suggestible individual:

suggestion : I don't want to buy death sticks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1EkOsY8p_8


example 2 (complex): difficult subject, multiple vector delivery, rapid bullet-to-the head speech, reverse psychology ?, leader/follower paradigm, aping behaviour

suggestion : leader suggests that follower is a retard (this is supposed to be funny)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc86ZXFsriM

Suggestion types : negative, positive, omitted (by implication or insinuation)

[SeaGypsy]

Finishing work today, waiting for forkies to unload my truck into the big fridge, about 20 trucks all backed up to a dock door, there was something funny going on, all the truckies were walking around the perimeter paying particular attention to one dock as they went by, the fork drivers were taking turns when they usually just pick a truck, anyway eventually one of the other truckies answers my quizzical look- "did you smell him? He fucken stinks!" I said I hadn't, he goes "seriously, that guy reeks!" So I walk past this dock & yeah pretty bad BO, I look over my shoulder & about 20 people across this massive warehouse are all waiting for my reaction- I just smiled- I'm the new guy- & always big on personal hygiene.

These are the moments as a working grunt which make it a lot of fun. Is the stinky guy stupid, socially ignorant or had his nose broken too many times? Do I feel sorry for him? Why should I? He didn't know he reeks or that a whole bunch of people were getting a giggle out of his woofiness.

Trucking is a great job. Won't be around forever, but nor will I.

[DesuMaiden]

Not sure if the IQ of people have declined over the past 100 to 200 years, but what I'm certain is that all people suffer from cognitive biases to a certain degree that prevent them from seeing the truth. Here's a comprehensive list of such errors:

http://energyskeptic.com/2013/cognitive-bias/

Not even the brightest among us are safe from some of these biases.