[Cog]

I don't recall telling anyone how to live their life. If you want to be a bum, sit around and smoke dope, or otherwise waste your potential, I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with people driving their SUV's around in circles wasting fuel, water-skiing behind a yacht, or otherwise living a over consumptive lifestyle if it suits them. If it doesn't break my leg or pick my pocket, I'm indifferent to it.

Freedom is grand.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'F')unny, KJ. For most of your post, I was agreeing nearly 100% with your rationales for what you desire in your homestead. In fact, you sounded exactly like a good number of friends of mine who are Democrats who live just the way you described the manner in which you'd like to live, yourself.

Whenever I read the news, though, Republicans seem to rabidly attack clean energy simply out of spite, because most Democrats are for clean energy.

BTW, I am most certainly NOT judging your rationales for choosing where or how you want to live. I actually agree with them. Most of them, anyway.

Oh, and for the record, I am also NOT a boomer.

[Newfie]

Cog,

I think what you are missing is that some folks feel a high consumption lifestyle IS telling them they can't live they way they want.

It's a little bit of lifeboat ethics. If the life boat has 10 seats but there are 15 people, then someone is going to object if you take up 3 seats.

I get that you don't believe in CC or resource depletion or over population. But others do. And you have done nothing to convience them you are correct. So it's no wonder you get negative responses.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', ' ') They exist because a lot of people prefer it, period.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')I think what you are missing is that some folks feel a high consumption lifestyle IS telling them they can't live they way they want.

It's a little bit of lifeboat ethics. If the life boat has 10 seats but there are 15 people, then someone is going to object if you take up 3 seats.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')I think what you are missing is that some folks feel a high consumption lifestyle IS telling them they can't live they way they want.

It's a little bit of lifeboat ethics. If the life boat has 10 seats but there are 15 people, then someone is going to object if you take up 3 seats.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'F')unny, KJ. For most of your post, I was agreeing nearly 100% with your rationales for what you desire in your homestead. In fact, you sounded exactly like a good number of friends of mine who are Democrats who live just the way you described the manner in which you'd like to live, yourself.

Whenever I read the news, though, Republicans seem to rabidly attack clean energy simply out of spite, because most Democrats are for clean energy.

BTW, I am most certainly NOT judging your rationales for choosing where or how you want to live. I actually agree with them. Most of them, anyway.

Oh, and for the record, I am also NOT a boomer.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '&')quot;it appears that what boomers want are big suburban houses on winding culs-de-sac." So they want to have their privacy yet live in large homes, I imagine with all the perk and amenities that Americans are used too. I cannot blame them having lived most of their lives in such a relatively wealthy country amid the pervasive notion of entitlement. Completely oblivious to what is coming which is probably better- Ignorance is bliss.
http://www.mnn.com/your-home/remodeling ... e-clueless

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') don't recall telling anyone how to live their life. If you want to be a bum, sit around and smoke dope, or otherwise waste your potential, I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with people driving their SUV's around in circles wasting fuel, water-skiing behind a yacht, or otherwise living a over consumptive lifestyle if it suits them. If it doesn't break my leg or pick my pocket, I'm indifferent to it.

Freedom is grand.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') don't recall telling anyone how to live their life. If you want to be a bum, sit around and smoke dope, or otherwise waste your potential, I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with people driving their SUV's around in circles wasting fuel, water-skiing behind a yacht, or otherwise living a over consumptive lifestyle if it suits them. If it doesn't break my leg or pick my pocket, I'm indifferent to it.

Freedom is grand.

[hvacman]

"Excessive consumption". Who gets to define what is "excessive"? "Those-who-know-better"?To most of the world, an efficiency townhouse apartment with hot and cold running water, central heat, and 950 square feet with 2 bedrooms, 1.5 baths and a patio deck in the back with a gas grille is wildly excessive.

We all who live in a first-world country have some form of "excess" required to support our living. Nothing personal, but I'll pick on Newfie, partly because I'm jealous of anyone who actually live-aboard on a sailboat, but mostly to make a "typical" point. Sure, at first glance, live-aboards on a sailboat looks like the definition of Zen simplicity, but look at the technology required to live "comfortably" on a sailboat in a harbor. Shore power. Piped fresh water. Either a piped waste system or an accessible waste tank pump-out system. And what about the harbor construction? the docks, the breakwater, the channel dredging? And the navigational technology when you pull anchor and set-sail for points beyond? And look at the technology and support systems to build and support the boat! Fiberglass, aluminum. Stainless steel standing rigging cabling and fittings everywhere. Auxiliary diesel. Batteries, PV, wind. Pumps - fresh water and bilge. The sails probably are not canvas - more likely many, many yards of Dacron, with other exotic synthetic materials used to weave the various lines - probably not single length using "natural" manilla. And I don't see a garden anywhere. Gotta sponge off someone else's food productivity. In its own way, Newfie's home is a floating McMansion from most of the world's perspective. But he can "afford" it so it is not excessive to HIM, and he would be very, very irritated to be told otherwise by those-who-know-better.

[Quinny]

Freedom in the US - LMAO!

[Cid_Yama]

You ARE one and the same person, so quit with the sock puppet routine.

Onlooker, it's not the boomers, it neocon post-boomers craving the McMansions, the Yuppies.

The Boomers are a very different lot. The polar opposites of the neocon Yuppies.

The so called 'study' was a poll, the questions binary, and biased, and targeted suburbanites who are largely commuter families.

Like the example question. Would you rather have high traffic in your neighborhood and more density or live in a cul-de-sac.

Like those are the only 2 options. Most anyone would choose less traffic and more space if those were the only 2 choices.

Also, the defined group is too large, covering different generations. Those born after 1960 have very different values than those born before. Had it been a real research study they would have broke down those demographics by age which would have shown the differences.

Then you have to take into consideration the size of the polled group by age. There are far more younger than older due to death, or having moved away from the suburbs.

Plus you have to look at where they were raised. If raised in city and suburb, would have far different answers than those raised rurally.

This is just a pop poll to entertain readership and sell that woman's book.

I was born in 1943 so would not fall within this grouping.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hvacman', '&')quot;Excessive consumption". Who gets to define what is "excessive"? "Those-who-know-better"?To most of the world, an efficiency townhouse apartment with hot and cold running water, central heat, and 950 square feet with 2 bedrooms, 1.5 baths and a patio deck in the back with a gas grille is wildly excessive.

We all who live in a first-world country have some form of "excess" required to support our living. Nothing personal, but I'll pick on Newfie, partly because I'm jealous of anyone who actually live-aboard on a sailboat, but mostly to make a "typical" point. Sure, at first glance, live-aboards on a sailboat looks like the definition of Zen simplicity, but look at the technology required to live "comfortably" on a sailboat in a harbor. Shore power. Piped fresh water. Either a piped waste system or an accessible waste tank pump-out system. And what about the harbor construction? the docks, the breakwater, the channel dredging? And the navigational technology when you pull anchor and set-sail for points beyond? And look at the technology and support systems to build and support the boat! Fiberglass, aluminum. Stainless steel standing rigging cabling and fittings everywhere. Auxiliary diesel. Batteries, PV, wind. Pumps - fresh water and bilge. The sails probably are not canvas - more likely many, many yards of Dacron, with other exotic synthetic materials used to weave the various lines - probably not single length using "natural" manilla. And I don't see a garden anywhere. Gotta sponge off someone else's food productivity. In its own way, Newfie's home is a floating McMansion from most of the world's perspective. But he can "afford" it so it is not excessive to HIM, and he would be very, very irritated to be told otherwise by those-who-know-better.

[Newfie]

Trying to address the relativity of this, IIRC Guatemala represents approximately a country with average wealth. It's a little hard to tell because climates are different, etc.

So, roughly all high consumers would have to reduce their standard of living to that of a Guatemalan and the unused excess would then be distributed to the worlds poor and we would all be equal.

Yet that would do exactly NOTHNG to reduce overall consumption, resource depletion, or climate change.

To make sufficient changes to achieve a sustainable future we would have to reduce output consumption to Guatemalan levels AND reduce our population to something like one billion.

It will happen, not voluntariarly.

[Shaved Monkey]

Ive chosen the freedom of not having to work more to pay for stuff I dont need.
The less I need to spend the freer I am.

[Newfie]

Oh so very true.

It's one of the reasons I frequently recommend "voyaging on a small income." Because it is really and truly about the freedom of living with less.

[yellowcanoe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hvacman', ' ')In its own way, Newfie's home is a floating McMansion from most of the world's perspective. But he can "afford" it so it is not excessive to HIM, and he would be very, very irritated to be told otherwise by those-who-know-better.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'Y')ou ARE one and the same person, so quit with the sock puppet routine.

[hvacman]

Getting back to the OP. I will offer an alternative, contrarian perspective to the mix:

Point 1 - The survey found out what BB's want when they RETIRE, not what they want to DIE. Let's say they retire at 66. Average life span is now out to the mid-eighties. There are some in their 60's who have trouble driving, have health problems, etc. But most are not anywhere close to death's doorstep or require assistance to take care of the lawn, go shopping, etc. They can drive just fine. Maybe they want a quiet place on a cul-de-sac a mile or two from a small shopping center and a mini-mart a few blocks away (a typical suburban configuration). Do they want to be in the same place when they are in their 80's, when the wheels start to fall off? Probably not. And they (perhaps with their children's strong encouragement) will relocate then, to something more compatible with limited mobility.

Point 2 - so let's say you start to get a little slow - maybe you can still drive, but you have problems walking OK. That is by far the most common first "wheel to fall off" from what I've seen. Think you want to live in the city on the 10th floor of some massive apt building, dealing with stairs, elevators, etc. just to get outside? Deal with navigating busy city sidewalks, crossing congested streets, all the noise and confusion? Probably not. Shopping? You're stuck walking to a local market. In suburbia, if you can drive, you can get in your car right in your garage, then drive to the local market or shopping center, which probably has a large parking lot with several Handicap-specific parking spaces right next to it. Hop on their motorized shopping cart. Just what you need. Same with doctor visits. In the city, it's negotiate cramped, crazy bus systems, a lot of walking, taking elevators to the Dr. office. Or get a taxi. In suburbia, the Dr. office has that HC parking referenced above.

Point 3 - anyone priced housing, groceries, etc. in the urban centers where one actually want to live? Suburbia is a bargain. Retirees are on fixed incomes.

Point 4 - Uber. Autonomous cars. It will revolutionize our concept of local transportation, what we own, and how we get around, be it suburbs, close-to-town rural, or urban centers.

Boomers aren't clueless, at least no more than any generation before, or any generation to come.