[Ibon]

It's getting old locked in polarity defending ones party, ones ideology, ones pet position. Not only old, its dumb. In the spirit of moving forward I suggest a new orientation.

In dialogue with others you look not to "win" an argument but rather to search for common ground. You assume that your position and party are valid but negotiable. If the other party is fixed and locked in you back away and break off the dialogue and do not feed the polarity. You can even say that you are not interested to debate who is right or wrong but are more interested in searching for common ground. You only continue the dialogue when you see a crack in the willingness to explore the complex nature of the topic instead of just defending tired old positions.

If we all start to promote this new orientation we stop feeding the stupidity. We start getting mature. We start interacting intelligently.

[Newfie]

Sage advice.

[Cog]

if you want to compromise your principles to reach consensus that is fine for you. don't expect others to do the same

[dinopello]

Well, that kumbaya moment didn't last long

I think it's very optimistic to assume that any kind of new orientation would be possible in an online, anonymous forum. Our local online forums are the same way with people just trying to one up the other and who knows who is a 13 year old kid just causing trouble for fun.

In-person community meetings are totally different. When you sit in a room with 5, 20 or hundreds of your neighbors and try to come to consensus on various things, people tend to be a lot less extreme and more willing to take a position of accepting a consensus outcome that might not be, in their opinion, optimal.

[Cog]

the only extremists on this board are liberals who want to make me accept their point of view by compromising my principles.That is never going to happen

[AgentR11]

Problem with the "consensus" argument, is that a lot on the left think consensus means that those on the right should accept half of the restrictions/taxes they want to implement.

Consensus means nothing of the sort.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'P')roblem with the "consensus" argument, is that a lot on the left think consensus means that those on the right should accept half of the restrictions/taxes they want to implement.

Consensus means nothing of the sort.

[Cog]

nonsensical tripe.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I')f they don't reach consensus, they will die.

[hvacman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 't')he only extremists on this board are liberals who want to make me accept their point of view by compromising my principles

[Plantagenet]

California is a trend leader in the USA. Always has been. Looks at whats happened in California over the last 20 years----the whole US is going to go the way of California over the next 20 years.

California is now a "majority minority" state, thanks to the rapid growth in the number of Hispanics. Hispanics vote strongly democratic. As a result Ds dominate the state----every California statewide office is held by a D, the state legislature has a supermajority of Ds, both Senators are Ds, and a large majority of the Congresscritters are Ds.

California has achieved consensus---they're almost all Ds.

Demographics is destiny---the same thing is going to happen across the US. Hispanic populations are growing rapidly across the US while the population of European-Americans is stable or even slightly declining. The result will be a growing majority of D voters and a permanent shift to D majorities and D control of more and more states and eventual permanent D control of the Congress and Presidency. When Texas flips to a hispanic majority, and politically flips from R to D, the Rs will never win another presidency. That will happen very soon----and then more and more states will inevitably follow the pattern set by California and Texas.

Then we'll all live in high-tax D states whether we like it or not. Then we will have the consensus that some people want so much..

Be careful what you wish for

[Cog]

here in the United States of America, we do not live in a democracy we live in a constitutional republic. this is the point at which liberals go off the rails immediately.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
Then we'll all live in high-tax D states whether we like it or not. Then we will have the consensus that some people want so much..

Be careful what you wish for

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
Then we'll all live in high-tax D states whether we like it or not. Then we will have the consensus that some people want so much..

Be careful what you wish for

[Cid_Yama]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')og, actually I frequently find you have great potential on this forum to change opinions, including mine. In some areas, you are very knowledgeable - your principles are backed by solid information, which you share.

[Cog]

There you go hvacman, Cid has pretty much made the case that I am an abhorrent human being not worthy of further social intercourse. In his world, I am a camp ground guard, wanting to commit genocide on everyone that I don't agree with. In my world, I want people to do that what they wish to do, without compulsion or government edict. That makes me some sort of monster to the left.

This is the stark contrast that we have on this board and on any board for that matter.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')here you go hvacman, Cid has pretty much made the case that I am an abhorrent human being not worthy of further social intercourse. In his world, I am a camp ground guard, wanting to commit genocide on everyone that I don't agree with. In my world, I want people to do that what they wish to do, without compulsion or government edict. That makes me some sort of monster to the left.

This is the stark contrast that we have on this board and on any board for that matter.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '
')Ibon, you fantasies about common ground are nonsense. These guys acted as the minions of corporate energy. As far as I'm concerned they sold their souls to the Devil, and were instrumental in the eventual extinction of most complex life on the planet.