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Live 8 and the consensus trance.

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Live 8 and the consensus trance.

Unread postby stu » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 08:26:50

First of all I have to brag about being able to go to possibly the biggest concert the world has ever seen. :P 8)

It was an amazing experience being there and seeing all the acts perform and being involved in something so huge.....However.

As everyone knows this was all about trying to convince the G8 leaders to drop the debt that Africa owes. There were moments when the whole issue was encapsulated and this ended up silencing the entire crowd. When Annie Lennox performed Why and also when Bob Geldof replayed the memorable footage of the Ethiopian famine. I looked all around and saw a couple of people with tears in their eyes and a lot of people just staring at the floor.

It was moments like this that were meant to convince people of the need to act. To make sure that they had not just turned up in order to listen to music but also to undergo a change in thinking.

During these moments I, like everyone else, felt quite sad as well, but it was a different kind of sadness.

I knew that this whole campaign to try and make poverty history was doomed to fail. Even if the world leaders do act and eliminate debt to Africa; Bob Geldof, Bono and most of the rest of the Western World will somehow believe that we will be able to eliminate poverty through continued trade without even having a thought as to how energy will play a part.

I must have been one of very few people who actually knew about PO and it's importance to the human race. Whenever anyone made mention of the problems faced in Africa and how we could solve them I just sighed because to me this event just summed up the whole consensus trance that has enveloped the majority of the masses.

This belief that we can eliminate poverty through constant trade without even stopping to think that it is powered by finite energy sources. It is a belief that is even shared by BOb Geldof, and it was frustrating to see a someone put in a position of influence as he is, and then try to convince the world of his beliefs without really thinking of the bigger picture.

If the concerts have their desired effect and help to alter the mindset of the world then it will just be one the biggest contributions to the trance which is leading humanity to fall off the edge of the cliff. If ever there was an event that summed this mindset up then this was it.

If PO happens the way I think it will then Live 8 will probably be remembered as the point in history where the population of the world came together to help eliminate poverty. What they failed to realize however, was that the actual energy source needed to do this had started to run out and so the dream became a nightmare.
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Unread postby Raxozanne » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 08:29:41

Did you feel tempted to jump on stage and start educating about PO? :wink:
Imagine the coverage!!!!
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Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 09:07:27

:? I seen no reason to hope that this concert will have a bigger impact than the previous ones that were directed to try to change the world. It is JUST a concert!!!

They came, drank, left garbage and then tried to sober up the next day. In a month 99% of the participants will have forgotten everything and gone on to worry about their jobs and what to do for vacation.

Direct activity can make a change not listening to Maddona trying to make a come back :twisted:
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Unread postby stu » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 09:17:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', 'D')id you feel tempted to jump on stage and start educating about PO? :wink:
Imagine the coverage!!!!


That would probably have left Geldof speechless. :lol:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shakespear1', 'I') seen no reason to hope that this concert will have a bigger impact than the previous ones that were directed to try to change the world. It is JUST a concert!!!


I think with the amount of coverage that ALL of the concerts received and the scale of the whole event will alter the mindset of people to a certain extent. I'm not predicting a revoloution or anything like that but I think that people are now more aware of trying to help poorer nations than at any other time. The reaction to the Asian tsunami is a good reflection of that. However the issue needs constant media attention in order to have the desired impact.
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Re: Live 8 and the consensus trance.

Unread postby Wildwell » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 09:22:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stu', 'F')irst of all I have to brag about being able to go to possibly the biggest concert the world has ever seen. :P 8)

It was an amazing experience being there and seeing all the acts perform and being involved in something so huge.....However.

As everyone knows this was all about trying to convince the G8 leaders to drop the debt that Africa owes. There were moments when the whole issue was encapsulated and this ended up silencing the entire crowd. When Annie Lennox performed Why and also when Bob Geldof replayed the memorable footage of the Ethiopian famine. I looked all around and saw a couple of people with tears in their eyes and a lot of people just staring at the floor.

It was moments like this that were meant to convince people of the need to act. To make sure that they had not just turned up in order to listen to music but also to undergo a change in thinking.

During these moments I, like everyone else, felt quite sad as well, but it was a different kind of sadness.

I knew that this whole campaign to try and make poverty history was doomed to fail. Even if the world leaders do act and eliminate debt to Africa; Bob Geldof, Bono and most of the rest of the Western World will somehow believe that we will be able to eliminate poverty through continued trade without even having a thought as to how energy will play a part.

I must have been one of very few people who actually knew about PO and it's importance to the human race. Whenever anyone made mention of the problems faced in Africa and how we could solve them I just sighed because to me this event just summed up the whole consensus trance that has enveloped the majority of the masses.

This belief that we can eliminate poverty through constant trade without even stopping to think that it is powered by finite energy sources. It is a belief that is even shared by BOb Geldof, and it was frustrating to see a someone put in a position of influence as he is, and then try to convince the world of his beliefs without really thinking of the bigger picture.

If the concerts have their desired effect and help to alter the mindset of the world then it will just be one the biggest contributions to the trance which is leading humanity to fall off the edge of the cliff. If ever there was an event that summed this mindset up then this was it.

If PO happens the way I think it will then Live 8 will probably be remembered as the point in history where the population of the world came together to help eliminate poverty. What they failed to realize however, was that the actual energy source needed to do this had started to run out and so the dream became a nightmare.



My thoughts exactly - of course it’s distinctly ‘un-pc’ to say so. But nevertheless significant problems have already occurred now as India and China have been brought into the ‘demand led’ club, the ecosystem of China is being systematically destroyed by over production, pollution and industrial sprawl. Now they are commissioning a coal fired power station every fortnight, can you imagine what that it doing to climate change? Ironically, climate change and drought is often the catalyst for the poverty and the starvation in Africa – as well as over-population and corrupt governments, which we won’t solve unless there is an internal revolution or yet more military action to remove them – and that won’t be popular…

I’m not sure I enjoyed the sickening irony of seeing some of the world’s richest people get on stage and say we should all do something, jetting around the world the get there. Their very lifestyle and system they benefit from has caused the disproportional imbalance between rich and poor. There are considerable problems in ‘rich’ countries with poverty, I’m not saying it’s the desperate state many African states are in, but nevertheless I smell a rat when politicians get involved. I wonder if this is really just an opportunity to get in and extract some of the minerals and benefit the pockets of some of the evil people that run these nations.

Forgive my cynicism, but I can only see the situation getting worse in Africa as climate change takes hold. But how many of those people that went to that concert are prepared to change their lifestyles? Not many. I can only see the situation getting worse with much of the money going into the pockets of corrupt governments. I can only see the situation getting worse for everyone when the demand on finite resources to lift many people out of poverty, affects the world in general. Already large road and air transport expansion plans have been proposed from the very people that push climate change as a problem.
Last edited by Wildwell on Mon 04 Jul 2005, 11:09:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby AQIUS » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 09:27:05

I have learned that you cant help those that wont help themselves. There is always a common theme to poverty: too many children ... not enough or unwise use of resources ... greed ... apathy .. corruption.
stir. lather. rinse. repeat every generation.
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Unread postby lorenzo » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 09:48:46

I'll stick to what African intellectuals like Valentin Mudimbe are saying: "Live8 is bad for Africa. The G8 is worse."
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Unread postby Choon » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 12:34:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', 'D')id you feel tempted to jump on stage and start educating about PO? :wink:
Imagine the coverage!!!!


We should have a PO version of Live8. Let's get Kunstler on stage to rap about the end of suburbia!
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Unread postby goldfishbowl42 » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 16:08:56

I saw a news program last night where people were discussing Live 8 and Climate change, and one person even Knew about PO, although he didn't use the words, he kept talking about the big oil story about to break.

Anyway, the panelists kept saying its all very well moaning about climate change but if we are to help Africa we have to put off climate change for a bit, because African's deserve cars and fridges and TV's etc too.

I couldn't believe their naiivety! The one guy who knew about PO tried to explain that its going to be no fridges rather than fridges for all but the rest of them completely failed to understand what he was saying and kept going on about how we need to encouge growth and globalisation to help Africa.

We seem to think that we should help Africa achieve ecconomic growth without realising that is the main problem with the current system no matter where you live.

We haven't got close to understanding the problem yet, but some people are begining to think somethings up on the oil front at least, even if they haven't grasped the scale of it all.
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Unread postby FoxV » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 16:53:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('goldfishbowl42', 'A')nyway, the panelists kept saying its all very well moaning about climate change but if we are to help Africa we have to put off climate change for a bit, because African's deserve cars and fridges and TV's etc too.


and adding all those fridges, cars, and TVs to to africa's virtually desolate resources will have no effect on their enviroment. Even with 1 + 1 staring these guys in the face they refuse to add it up.

Our greed may have screwed up their enviroment and reduced africa's ability to support itself, but its nothing compared to what our bleeding heart do-gooder's have done trying save them.

Add to this soil, water, and oil depletion, man is the 21st century ever going to give us some harsh lessons in sustainablilty.
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Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 16:54:34

Great picture in today's paper of Africans peeking through a fence to see a bit of the concert. They had to pull away some canvas too, I guess that was put up to make sure nonpaying people don't get to see the concert.
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Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 19:00:30

Do these people really believe Africans deserve TVs, fridges etc., or do they just need more people to sell them to?
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Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 20:16:58

I don't think American deserve tv's fridges etc these days, if we're going to get the world to gear down, we need to lead by example.
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Unread postby Lora » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 20:22:59

goldfishbowl42,

What news show were you watching? Who was the person who knew about PO?

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Unread postby skiwi » Tue 05 Jul 2005, 06:24:38

Bono and the boneheads hype the G8's African 'debt cancellation'

Maybe it was the slickness of it all, the "One Campaign To Make Poverty History" that raised my antennae. That advertising simplicity that can whitewash anything with star names like Bono, U2, Will Smith, Paul McCartney, Coldplay, Jaz Z, Stevie Woner, Madonna, Faith Hill, Marian Carey, Pink Floyd and more, plus Tony Blair, George Bush, even Nelson Mandela. Wow. Replete with a downloadable PDF kit from a "One Campaign" email to help you Organize Your Live 8 Party for July 2nd," just a few days before the G8 Summit and America's Declaration of Independence weekend. What a coincidence...
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Unread postby shakespear1 » Tue 05 Jul 2005, 06:48:20

Africa has been raped. Now after the great drive to help it with AIDS the world has awakened to its Poverty. What nonsense!!!!

Africa needs the simple things and yet is unable to get them. It is well supplied in guns and interest from mining/oil companies, but that is about it.

Having seen Angola and Gabon I for one do not see any hope for it. It by itself needs to help itself but will not. It is a quilt of tribes that will never agree on anything. For sure not on helping the dying as the ones that could have their interests in French or Swiss bank accounts.

If Blair and Bush want to do something good send a fleet full of mosquito nets as a starter. Upps, forgot, they are off on a mission to stop the Terrorists from the land of Ali Baba and the 100 thieves. :cry:
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Unread postby Doly » Tue 05 Jul 2005, 08:25:26

It always amazes me how everybody seems to forget the obvious thing about Africa: its climate.

The reason Africa is difficult to industrialize is because industries were created for a completely different country. Tools that work well on temperate weather don't always work in Africa. Roads decay at a much faster pace. If they started concentrating on trying to work with their climate, they might get somewhere.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Tue 05 Jul 2005, 09:11:28

Great post, stu!

I can't help but think of the first verse of Joe Jackson's "Obvious Song"$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here was a man in the jungle
Trying to make ends meet
Found himself one day with an axe in his hand
When a voice said Buddy can you spare that tree
We gotta save the world - starting with your land
It was a rock 'n' roll millionaire from the USA
Doing 3 to the gallon in a big white car
And he sang and he sang 'til he polluted the air
And he blew a lot of smoke from a Cuban cigar
And the stars are looking down
Through a hole in the sky
And if they can see, they cry
That's obvious
I don't think Joe participated in the concert.
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Unread postby shakespear1 » Wed 06 Jul 2005, 15:05:38

Pstarr

That is the song of Africa but Geldoff didn't want to sing it otherwise all those people might feel offended.

You forgot OIL, Diamonds and at one time your PEOPLE. :)

We give you $5/kg apples fom France, cars that break down, plastic trash to fill your bays and tankers to get your stuff.
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