PeakOil is You
Let's dig up dead people because they are racist
Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist
by Tanada » Wed 15 Jul 2015, 18:04:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'e')dit: nvm, withnail I can't go back and forth with you
Six don't get into a one upmanship contest, but if you want to blame things on Britain you have to start here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707
Before that the island was made up of separate kingdoms.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist
by Withnail » Wed 15 Jul 2015, 18:05:41
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Ha, that's clever. Okay give me a date, for examination of British history.
Give me a date where I can start from, and I'll see if there is anything bad in British history. And I'll look into racism and bigotry, in the UK.
What about India? Did Brits do anything bad there?
')Ha, that's clever. Okay give me a date, for examination of British history.
Give me a date where I can start from, and I'll see if there is anything bad in British history. And I'll look into racism and bigotry, in the UK.
What about India? Did Brits do anything bad there?
Lots of awful things.
After the Indian Mutiny was suppressed in 1856, the British lashed rebel prisoners to the barrels of cannons then fired gunpowder charges, blowing the victims in half.
There was also a huge famine labelled by one historian as the Victorian Holocaust which killed millions, while the British continued to export food from the affected areas to the UK.
Then there was the Amritsar Massacre, when General Wheeler's troops opened fire on an unarmed crowd until all ammunition had been expended.
Just a few off the top of my head.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist
by Sixstrings » Wed 15 Jul 2015, 18:42:47
@withnail
Well okay then, I won't look into British history. I know it generally.. I saw the movie "Ghandi." Various documentaries, over the years.
Would you agree that yes there was bad about British history in India, but there was also good too? Can you see that history can be mixed and you can wind up somewhere good while NOT in any way condoning the bad things about the past?
One can say the same very thing, about British slavery history in the carribean. The sugar plantation colonies, those were BRITISH slave masters on those plantations, with English accents. Nevis, Barbados, Jamaica, many islands down there.
The original sin of American slavery, is actually British original sin -- we were British subjects, we were from Britain, we had English accents.
If my math is not off, if I'm not mistaken, British Empire slavery only ended like 30 years before it did in the US.
This whole topic is insane, and endless. There are no "all good guys." In the Union Army, General Sherman didn't want freed slaves following his army around. There was a horrific incident on a bridge where he just let them all drown. They were slowing down his military campaign, the "march to the sea" in Savannah.
It was a "break the South" campaign, and the doctrine was about taking the war to civilians. And it was militarily sound, if very hard and "scorched earth" on the civilians. It was like a "nuke Japan to end WWII" thing.
But make no mistake -- Sherman, a union general, was a racist and a bigot. Many in the North were, probably most, they seriously did not care about native americans or african americans. MOST of them did not, they were just different times. And then some people in the northeast cared a LOT about the issue, and those were the "abolitionists" and some were radicals (considered at the time), like John Brown.
History is like fish and guests, it is not always pleasant, it is not always all what you think it is or may want it to be or may want to spin it as.
I am very honest about things, the most recent thing in the South and America to be historically ashamed about, was the segregation era. I know all that history and I just assume everyone else does, too. But that was the 1960s, before my lifetime, we already had transcendence beyond that. The "rednecks" of today, are not all racists and bigots, and if you don't agree with that then I'm sorry but nothing a kiwi or Brit says is going to make them give their flag up either (talking about their private property, and their civil right to walk around with a flag, and wear confederate belt buckles and ballcaps and whatever).
Anyhow -- everything will be decided by our democratic process, and at the ballot box. We have laws and elections and a Constitution and courts and rule of law, not anarchy. I'll vote my way, everybody else can vote their way, and we all respect whatever that result is and then our courts intercede if laws ever violate the Constitution.
If SCOTUS ever decided confederate history has to go, then that would have to be respected, the Supreme Court has the ultimate say.
P.S. I honestly admire all the historical figures from the civil war, if you asked me who my favorite is then that's Lincoln. I've read far more about Lincoln than I ever have Robert E. Lee -- just don't take Lee away, that's all I'm saying.
Well okay then, I won't look into British history. I know it generally.. I saw the movie "Ghandi." Various documentaries, over the years.
Would you agree that yes there was bad about British history in India, but there was also good too? Can you see that history can be mixed and you can wind up somewhere good while NOT in any way condoning the bad things about the past?
One can say the same very thing, about British slavery history in the carribean. The sugar plantation colonies, those were BRITISH slave masters on those plantations, with English accents. Nevis, Barbados, Jamaica, many islands down there.
The original sin of American slavery, is actually British original sin -- we were British subjects, we were from Britain, we had English accents.
If my math is not off, if I'm not mistaken, British Empire slavery only ended like 30 years before it did in the US.
This whole topic is insane, and endless. There are no "all good guys." In the Union Army, General Sherman didn't want freed slaves following his army around. There was a horrific incident on a bridge where he just let them all drown. They were slowing down his military campaign, the "march to the sea" in Savannah.
It was a "break the South" campaign, and the doctrine was about taking the war to civilians. And it was militarily sound, if very hard and "scorched earth" on the civilians. It was like a "nuke Japan to end WWII" thing.
But make no mistake -- Sherman, a union general, was a racist and a bigot. Many in the North were, probably most, they seriously did not care about native americans or african americans. MOST of them did not, they were just different times. And then some people in the northeast cared a LOT about the issue, and those were the "abolitionists" and some were radicals (considered at the time), like John Brown.
History is like fish and guests, it is not always pleasant, it is not always all what you think it is or may want it to be or may want to spin it as.
I am very honest about things, the most recent thing in the South and America to be historically ashamed about, was the segregation era. I know all that history and I just assume everyone else does, too. But that was the 1960s, before my lifetime, we already had transcendence beyond that. The "rednecks" of today, are not all racists and bigots, and if you don't agree with that then I'm sorry but nothing a kiwi or Brit says is going to make them give their flag up either (talking about their private property, and their civil right to walk around with a flag, and wear confederate belt buckles and ballcaps and whatever).
Anyhow -- everything will be decided by our democratic process, and at the ballot box. We have laws and elections and a Constitution and courts and rule of law, not anarchy. I'll vote my way, everybody else can vote their way, and we all respect whatever that result is and then our courts intercede if laws ever violate the Constitution.
If SCOTUS ever decided confederate history has to go, then that would have to be respected, the Supreme Court has the ultimate say.
P.S. I honestly admire all the historical figures from the civil war, if you asked me who my favorite is then that's Lincoln. I've read far more about Lincoln than I ever have Robert E. Lee -- just don't take Lee away, that's all I'm saying.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist
by Withnail » Wed 15 Jul 2015, 19:06:44
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '@')withnail
Well okay then, I won't look into British history. I know it generally.. I saw the movie "Ghandi." Various documentaries, over the years.
Would you agree that yes there was bad about British history in India, but there was also good too? Can you see that history can be mixed and you can wind up somewhere good while NOT in any way condoning the bad things about the past?
Well okay then, I won't look into British history. I know it generally.. I saw the movie "Ghandi." Various documentaries, over the years.
Would you agree that yes there was bad about British history in India, but there was also good too? Can you see that history can be mixed and you can wind up somewhere good while NOT in any way condoning the bad things about the past?
No I wouldn't, it was completely wrong for the UK to colonise India.
Oh I forgot one.
The British started opium poppy plantations in India in order to traffic drugs to China.
Basically historically we've committed big crimes against two huge countries which are growng more and more powerful.
No wonder our government licks America's boots. Hoping for protection perhaps.
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