[SeaGypsy]

What about the 20% neutral or antisocial?

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[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hat about the 20% neutral or antisocial?

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[SeaGypsy]

My suspicion is that you are correct for a reference to pre-modern megalopolis hominids, where the former have active ongoing participation in a conscious but in no way contrived manner, the latter are largely infantilized & the peace & sharing is an artifice of abundance in this context. The shift required to feed the latter sustainably, I believe, won't happen. What form re-emerging agrarian society takes? Most likely like it did most places before the need for elaborate transcontinental structures became the reality for even most geographically remote people in developed countries. Indeed, one of the definitions if developed is this very network dependence.. I don't much buy people just keep going to work, starving.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'C')are to elaborate on that stat? Interesting...

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'C')are to elaborate on that stat? Interesting...

[Newfie]

Or possibly your are just spouting stuff you cant substantiate?

[Pops]

The problem with the "problem of infinite accumulation in a finite world" is wealth does not infinitely accumulate.

China is the worlds largest economy and 30 percent of the equity "wealth" there has evaporated in the last couple weeks... not to mention that real estate has been headed down for a while and who knows where it really is..

That's $3Trillion in "accumulation" that went poof, it definitely was not infinite.

I kinda think a person needs to separate in their head the idea of wealth as actual physical stuff — stuff with a positive present, tangible value, from stuff with an apparent future value based on BAU.

I guess I need to read more but at this point I see the future following along the path of Ricardo's theory of scarcity and rents than Marx's theory of surpluses of capital and labor. "Mining" surpluses of labor for profit was a great theory during the industrial revolution but I think it was energy slaves that provided and enabled the surplus, not capital and certainly not capitalists.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', ' ')[AD} ...just spouting stuff you cant substantiate?

[Pops]

I'm pretty sure Karl thought there were 2 options, the other being the capitalists would turn on each other.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I')'m pretty sure Karl thought there were 2 options, the other being the capitalists would turn on each other.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')he problem with the "problem of infinite accumulation in a finite world" is wealth does not infinitely accumulate.

China is the worlds largest economy and 30 percent of the equity "wealth" there has evaporated in the last couple weeks... not to mention that real estate has been headed down for a while and who knows where it really is..

That's $3Trillion in "accumulation" that went poof, it definitely was not infinite.

I kinda think a person needs to separate in their head the idea of wealth as actual physical stuff — stuff with a positive present, tangible value, from stuff with an apparent future value based on BAU.

I guess I need to read more but at this point I see the future following along the path of Ricardo's theory of scarcity and rents than Marx's theory of surpluses of capital and labor. "Mining" surpluses of labor for profit was a great theory during the industrial revolution but I think it was energy slaves that provided and enabled the surplus, not capital and certainly not capitalists.

[americandream]

To fully appreciate the magnitude of the oncoming crisis, classic economics is insufficient. Only social economy fills the void.

On the climate front, we will enter a fractal period which could plunge us into an ice age for a 1000 years. Alternately, temperatures could soar for a 1000 years driving marginal life to the margins. What we do know is that trend fractility awaits us in which the brutish fantasies of some will simply evaporate. We cannot endure trend fractility. Range fractility, yes, trend fractility, no.

This is a global systemic issue calling for a global systemic remedy. And above all, logic, not ego.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'w')e will enter a fractal period which could plunge us into an ice age for a 1000 years.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'w')e will enter a fractal period which could plunge us into an ice age for a 1000 years.