[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I')ndustrial civilization is vile.

[AgentR11]

I did not imply that I was just and noble. Thus no hypocrisy at all.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') did not imply that I was just and noble. Thus no hypocrisy at all.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I')ndustrial civilization is vile.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') did not imply that I was just and noble. Thus no hypocrisy at all.

[AgentR11]

Not only do I not wish it to go away, I'm pretty sure it won't for some time. That does not preclude me from recognizing it for what it is. Industrial civilization is a vile abomination, and it provides me (and most here) great pleasure and comfort, even for those who do not wish to acknowledge it. I understand that most are desperate to see themselves as "the good guy", even as they use a 1-2 ton machine, and enough energy to feed a horde of people, to go fetch a box of cookies. I don't share that need.

What is "living in a dreamworld" is believing that there is an out. The hand has been dealt, and we may play it as we wish, but there is no new deal. Humans would have been far better off, individually, and as a species, had the last 10,000 years not happened; had we stayed within our hunter, gathering, tribal war-fighting ways, we could have enjoyed this beautiful world for probably several million more years. As it is, the clock is ticking in decades, not millennia. And no desire on my part will alter it, even in the tiniest measurable fashion. The clock can not be turned back; and the ingenuity of man used to craft his own annihilation can not be undone.

[ffkling]

One of the most impressionable books I have ever read provides a unique perspective into the fundamental nature of mankind, and should be required reading for all students. This book is about the life of a rat in the horrific world we have created. It's titled, "Rat, A Novel" by polish writer Andrzej Zaniewski.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'N')ot only do I not wish it to go away, I'm pretty sure it won't for some time. That does not preclude me from recognizing it for what it is. Industrial civilization is a vile abomination, and it provides me (and most here) great pleasure and comfort, even for those who do not wish to acknowledge it. I understand that most are desperate to see themselves as "the good guy", even as they use a 1-2 ton machine, and enough energy to feed a horde of people, to go fetch a box of cookies. I don't share that need.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'I')ndustrial civilization in not a vile abomination nor is it unsustainable at a specific population level. The great pleasures and comfort that it provides at a certain population level means we are all the "good guys" and there would be no cognitive dissonance.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'I')ndustrial civilization in not a vile abomination nor is it unsustainable at a specific population level. The great pleasures and comfort that it provides at a certain population level means we are all the "good guys" and there would be no cognitive dissonance.

[Timo]

Ibon, sorry about that. I did indeed misinterpret your previous post. Moving along, though, it would be absolutely wonderful to live with modern comforts within the earth's natural carrying capacity. But, not gonna happen.

This, and other discussions consistently brings back to me that factor in the Drake Equation that posits intelligent life's abiltiy to survive its own technological advancement long enough to become indefinitely sustainable. If there is intelligent life elsewhere out in another solar system, surely the same factors apply to them, as well. Life in general is but a mere nano second in the grand history of the universe.

[onlooker]

I find the replies comforting as we all struggle with the revelations of seeing the true trajectory of humanity. To you Desu, I can only say think about your judgement does that not resonate that you have seen the perversions of this civilization and it disgusts you. Well, I do believe many people LIKE YOU are disenchanted to various degrees about the current condition of our world-wide civilization. As a few posts stated focus on the potential and actual goodness of yourself and those you encounter. See goodness it will mitigate this disgust you feel. As for your question, I also have little hope for our collective future. But I do not worry about it, I am trapped within the limits of abilities to process information and even more to become too emotional about it. So I distance myself with the simplest of sage quotes "Do not worry be happy" After all whatever awaits after death will probably be much better.

[ChilPhil1986]

I was here once from a philosophical standpoint and decided I didn't want to hang around and watch the demise of humanity. Luckily, (or unluckily, or just shitty aim, depending on your interpretation) three bullets missed their intended target and the subsequent rounds jammed the gun. After that, the protracted recovery time allowed for me to do some religious analysis. Now, despite my awareness of how screwed everything is (including my face), I've got what it takes to wake up every day and function relatively smoothly.

I'm just gonna submit my opinion that the Bhagavad Gita is pretty awesome for a religious text that's almost 2,000 years old (according to Wiki). Blows the Koran and the Bible out of the water, and yes, I've read all three. Humanity got you stressed? Peak oil getting you down? Personal disabilities pissing you off? Spilled the latte of hypocrisy all over yo' keyboard? The Gita chills me the f*ck out every time.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '
')This, and other discussions consistently brings back to me that factor in the Drake Equation that posits intelligent life's abiltiy to survive its own technological advancement long enough to become indefinitely sustainable. If there is intelligent life elsewhere out in another solar system, surely the same factors apply to them, as well. Life in general is but a mere nano second in the grand history of the universe.

[onlooker]

Phil that is a very honest ,revealing and personal response. I guess all (most) here feel the daunting weight of what we know and believe. I for one have always believed in God, this universe and existence is just way to miraculous and awesome to be explained by some physical-mechanical process. What helps me also is to feel compassion the way I do now as opposed to when I was younger. Many people around the world are hurting psychologically speaking. No longer are people drinking the cool-aid that the establishment wished us to drink. I always come back to the exit door put in by God, meaning Death. Sooner or later we all are going to walk through that exit.

[rollin]

I am not worried about humanity at all. People are an ultimate form of evolution. Their ability to communicate, believe in non-existent things and beings, ability to imagine things that don't exist, combined with the dexterity and organization to implement them into existence is without comparison in nature. Humans can change the way they act and interact by agreement (fiction). The whole of human civilization is a giant fiction and that is why it works, it can change quickly with a change of mind.

Humans have moved themselves out of the food chain, they almost have free will, and have mostly left natural selection behind. This is the grandest experiment ever launched and no one knows it's outcome. It could be great, it could be disastrous, it could be great after being disastrous. Who really knows?
So just worry about your own slice of the pie, no need to worry about Nature's creations. Just do your part to relieve some of the local depravity.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '
')This, and other discussions consistently brings back to me that factor in the Drake Equation that posits intelligent life's abiltiy to survive its own technological advancement long enough to become indefinitely sustainable. If there is intelligent life elsewhere out in another solar system, surely the same factors apply to them, as well. Life in general is but a mere nano second in the grand history of the universe.