[Henriksson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'T')hink the EROEI on building a new robot would probably be more than a puny little human being?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I')t doesn't really matter if I'm worried. This thread is about what Musk said. Musk says it will happen. Musk is a smart guy. He founded Paypay and revolutionized space travel and electric cars. He is a physicist and is really smart. He knows what Google is doing . Musk says we will go to Mars and his rocket engines are the best and Musk says the robots with the AI will kill us all.

[Quinny]

Where do you get that from?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Henriksson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'T')hink the EROEI on building a new robot would probably be more than a puny little human being?

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'B')ut he's a visionary and Most Interesting Man In The World and alpha dog on everything else. Cut the guy some slack. He's not God.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'T')hink the EROEI on building a new robot would probably be more than a puny little human being?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'B')ut he's a visionary and Most Interesting Man In The World and alpha dog on everything else. Cut the guy some slack. He's not God.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Henriksson', 'E')lectronics is more energy-efficient than biological machines. And so our human-fleet will be inevitably replaced.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '[')url=http://www.marketmenot.com/wink-robot-butler-commercial/]BTW, this TV commercial always cracks me up[/url]

[dinopello]

If you or Elon Musk want to really understand the state of the art in AI you should talk to (or listen to) Michael Jordan

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')pectrum: Turning now to some other topics, if you were talking to someone in Silicon Valley, and they said to you, “You know, Professor Jordan, I’m a really big believer in the singularity,” would your opinion of them go up or down?

Michael Jordan: I luckily never run into such people.

Spectrum: Oh, come on.

Michael Jordan: I really don’t. I live in an intellectual shell of engineers and mathematicians.

Spectrum: But if you did encounter someone like that, what would you do?

Michael Jordan: I would take off my academic hat, and I would just act like a human being thinking about what’s going to happen in a few decades, and I would be entertained just like when I read science fiction. It doesn’t inform anything I do academically.

Spectrum: Okay, but knowing what you do academically, what do you think about it?

Michael Jordan: My understanding is that it’s not an academic discipline. Rather, it’s partly philosophy about how society changes, how individuals change, and it’s partly literature, like science fiction, thinking through the consequences of a technology change. But they don’t produce algorithmic ideas as far as I can tell, because I don’t ever see them, that inform us about how to make technological progress.

[Sixstrings]

Ok I'm dialoguing with myself again as Kaiser says, but here's another thought.

Why all this assumption that AI would ensure its self interest by FIGHTING us?

That is the path of MOST resistance and least survival prospects, not the path of least resistance.

Rather than an evil Terminator movies AI, it's just as possible that an AI would ensure its survival by playing on our emotions.

Look at pet dogs and what people spend on vet bills. They go without healthcare themselves, sometimes, to make sure the dog is taken care of.

It would be far less work and trouble and greater success probably for the AI to make us love it, rather than fight us.

An intelligent survival-interested AI could evolve THAT way -- playing on our emotions, our need for companionship, our pack animal tribe / family mentality.

Do sentient PEOPLE just fight each other, for no reason at all? Just psycho, out of nowhere? Sometimes. If there's a fault in the programming (dna). Or, if the sentient carbon based robot (human) was mistreated.

So why assume a TRUE sentient artificial intelligence is malevolent? In Dino's Star Trek example, that AI had too much power, with the mind of a child. Would you give a child so much power? Of course not.

We'll just have to raise these AI's right, that's all, same as raising kids or a pet dog.

(this whole topic, and Musk too, is just way ahead of itself. It's like in Star Trek -- there's a long way to go from Majel Barrett the friendly ship supercomputer to then commander data the android, and THEN finally an emotion chip for Data.

We'll have the former, before the latter. A more Majel Barrett kind of sentience -- not fully self aware and emotions and self interest, just exremely helpful and smart and able to to talk to us back and forth.

The "skynet" fears are about that kind of AI then spontaneously becoming self aware, but really, that ain't gonna happen. We humans worry about stuff all the time that actually never happens, like ebola just mutating suddenly out of nowhere. Possible? Remotely. Likely? No. What is more probable is what is likely.

NOW -- if they do accomplish a full human brain neuronal mind kind of replication, and actually create full sentience, then that's like creating a child. It will have to learn, it'll be whatever AI it is raised to be. Ethics and morality though require EMOTION -- as does sentience, by some definitions, survival instinct is emotional. So anyhow emotion is then another issue, you'd have to simulate that. In our brain that's our core brain functions at the center, our "lizard" brain, the basic parts that first evolved and then the higher functions came later.

What's interesting about AI is that actually it's the higher functions evolved first. But are those dangerous. It's the lizard brain stuff that can be dangerous -- feeling fear, hate, etc. But then modeling that would have its advantages as well, it would make the AI like a mammal and could have emotion and loyalty to us as a dog does -- we know our dog won't bite us, whereas if you have a pet boa then it really could just eat you.)

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'M')ichael Jordan: I luckily never run into such people.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')all you really care about is if somebody makes something that even sorta kinda seems like a sentient AI.

[Newfie]

Ah, but it's worse, THIS is what is going to doom us.

Because rather than being worried about being killed by robots, we should be worried about breeding ourselves to death.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I') resemble that remark.

Anhow, that got off topic, this thread is about Elon Musk and how he knows that the robots are coming to kill us all

[Sixstrings]

I mean, let's just have some respect for Musk, that's all.

He's another Von Braun or Henry Ford.

He's done some new things that are pushing several industries forward, most of all aerospace. What more could you ask from someone, sheesh, any one of his successes would be enough for a lifetime.

And I think I read he said these "robots will kill us" stuff was in emails and in informal talks, he never meant it to be published.

So now the latest is he says he'll do a blog on it and expand his thoughts.

But why do we care anyway, relax people, he's not the Oracle at Delphi ok? He can spout off on something and maybe it's not too deep or important.

Look at what he does. He's actually a doer not a talker, so, just look at what he does. It's guys like Branson that are such talkers. Talk, talk, talk -- Musk has delivered. The merlin engine. Dragon crew vehicle, on the way, will be carrying US astronauts. Falcon Heavy, biggest rocket since the Saturn V, on the way.

Model X tesla, with its falcon wing doors, on the way. The man gets it done, folks, he says he'll do something and he does it.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')
Anyhow, that got off topic, this thread is about Elon Musk and how he knows that the robots are coming to kill us all

[Sixstrings]

Well okay it's your thread, fair enough.

I would just say that a spruce goose didn't invalidate Howard Hughes' other successes.

Spacex is so exciting.. I don't care if solar city flops or tesla never makes it after all, who gives a flip. I don't care if Musk goes a little nuts talking about doom robots, as long as he keeps making those rockets and comes through on the price he says he will.

So far they are.

SpaceX, an American company with American employees making ALL their stuff in the USA, is the lowest cost launch to orbit provider in the entire world. When everyone else said they couldn't make a rocket engine in America, and they had to use Russian engines, Musk went out and did it. When everyone else was okay that we needed the soyuz to get our guys to space, Musk was not okay with it, he said that was ridiculous and now he's solved that problem. When everyone else was okay with the Mars mission getting canceled, Musk was not okay with it, and he founded spacex to get done what government can't or won't.

It's going to take the rest of the industry a decade at least, to catch up and figure out how to compete.

If it went public today it would be worth at least $10 billion.

EDIT: you just can't suggest Musk is a crackpot or something, it's just not fair. I don't know the particulars on tesla, but the financials on spacex are out of sight. They've done everything RIGHT, they changed the whole industry, the man is not just another CEO billionaire parasite hedge fund guy in the hamptons, he's bigger than that, he's got vision, he wants to do bold things for all humanity.

If he gets America to Mars, when our government could not or would not, then Elon Musk will be in the history books forever. Nobody will remember anything about this time we live in now, but they will remember the first man on mars, and the story behind it.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') have no idea what the big idea is, Six? His 'rocket' might as well be a Fed Ex truck for all the sophistication it implies. Sending one-ton loads up to near-earth orbit hasn't been a big deal since 1980. I paid for the development years ago. Must simply conned his way out of the public domain.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')hat's with the Elon Musk hate.

He makes good cars. I've seen documentaries about it, the guy has designers and engineers but he goes in at every step of the way personally micro manages every last detail of design.