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POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Sixstrings » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 15:53:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he BO administration staged a Rose Garden press conference with the parents, and Susan Rice did her usual lying trip to the sunday new shows to proclaim that Bergdahl served with "honor and distinction" while Obama proclaimed him a "hero." Of course they knew he was a deserter, but since there isn't a single vet in the White House these days, they probably didn't even know what that means. I'm sure the BO people expected a frency of flag-waving and praise to accompany the release.
This administration is terrifyingly clueless. On foreign policy, and on the military.
How did that slip by them? And nobody got the memo, about Berghdahl, that they really ought not to have a big Rose Garden thing? Jesus.
I'm not piling on the kid, he suffered bad over there, but he walked away and was anti-American and all mixed up with this RT-style internet wing nuttery Noam Chomsky thinking.
He put his comrades' lives in danger, I think some died searching for him, and it's not cool. Other soldiers don't want to see him hailed as a hero. His hometown canceled the welcome parade.
Obama admin is just so clueless. They did right getting him back, but it should have been kept in the background, they just actually didn't frickin' get the memo about the details, apparently. How can they be so clueless???? Boggles the mind.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 15:58:19
Beutow said he knows of at least one death on an intelligence-directed infantry patrol to a village in search of Bergdahl. More broadly, the mission of his entire unit changed after Bergdahl’s disappearance because it began to incorporate efforts to pursue clues to his whereabouts.
“Those soldiers who died on those missions, they would not have been where they were … if Bergdahl had never walked away,” he said.
Statement by one of Bergdahl's fellow soldiers
It appears the Taliban would set up traps and ambushes for US soldiers, and then lure them into the traps by leaking info that Bowe Bergdahl might be there. Bergdahl's desertion indirectly lead to the death of good men.
This is why I find it offensive that Obama called Bergdahl a "hero" but never mentioned the US soldiers who died trying to find Bergdahl after he deserted. I think it was wrong of Obama to stage a press conference with Bergdahl's parents at the White House, but never give a thought about the men who died looking for him or their parents.
Surely the men who died looking for Bergdahl deserve at least equal recognition to Bergdahl. Surely Obama should invite their parents to the White House, just as he invited Bergdahl's parents.
It would be nice if Obama would invite the parents of the men killed looking for Bergdahl to the White House as well.
“Those soldiers who died on those missions, they would not have been where they were … if Bergdahl had never walked away,” he said.
Statement by one of Bergdahl's fellow soldiers
It appears the Taliban would set up traps and ambushes for US soldiers, and then lure them into the traps by leaking info that Bowe Bergdahl might be there. Bergdahl's desertion indirectly lead to the death of good men.
This is why I find it offensive that Obama called Bergdahl a "hero" but never mentioned the US soldiers who died trying to find Bergdahl after he deserted. I think it was wrong of Obama to stage a press conference with Bergdahl's parents at the White House, but never give a thought about the men who died looking for him or their parents.
Surely the men who died looking for Bergdahl deserve at least equal recognition to Bergdahl. Surely Obama should invite their parents to the White House, just as he invited Bergdahl's parents.
It would be nice if Obama would invite the parents of the men killed looking for Bergdahl to the White House as well.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by AgentR11 » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 15:59:07
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '[')b]People just don't know our history. That's right Agent, we are right, and our way of doing things is the best way, AND THIS IS WHAT WE WERE FOUNDED ON centuries ago.
Would that be the history of slavery.. the history of Western "manifest destiny".. the history of the civil war.. the history of ...
Our history is not one of wondrous purity or piety. I do not need it to be a history of wondrous purity to be American or "believe in" America. It is fine, we enslaved millions, then decided it was a bad idea.. but only after it had started to become economically unviable. It is fine, the United States needed to span from Atlantic to Pacific, to become a great power, and provide luxurious lifestyles for those who came before me, and myself. It is fine, we are free to speak as loudly and as long as we wish.. and be completely ignored while doing so.
We are America, vaguely democratic, a poorly designed system that has too much inertia to fix, put together by those who had no working model to derive from. Elected choose the electors; the borders of states that were relevant long ago have more influence on policy results than the full popular vote of the people. One man's vote in Ohio is worth the vote of a thousand in Texas or California. No, don't sell me best.
But we are fine. Our people have generally comfortable lives, are only rarely harmed by the ham-handedness of state power, and are generally free to go where they want, do what they want, and say what they want. In the course of human history, such an achievement is no small victory.
That said, do not ignore the iron gauntlet that we use around the world. We throw down democracies that do not obey, and we raise up dictators who do obey. No one can dictate policy to us, and we can and do dictate policy to many. That too is America, and that too is fine.
I am sorry if you can only accept America in the comic book version. I can not help you with that. I am content and willing to wield the sword as the real America might command.
Yes we are, as we are,
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Sixstrings » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 16:11:05
Just want to say, the reason I'm flipping out is that we're starting to see "internet" forum wing nuttery go mainstream and it's causing big damage. First Snowden. Now, Bergdahl. We're in trouble if these are our future leaders because they're all mixed up.
Bergdahl's writings sounded like all the anti-American stuff I've seen on this forum.
His father sounds like that too, and I don't know where POW Bergdahl picked it up from but these views caused him real damage. *He was clearly mixed up* and just gives up his gear and wanders off to the taliban, wtf, feeling guilty and THEN THEY MAKE HIM SUFFER FOR FIVE YEARS AS A POW. So wtf. He's lucky they didn't kill him.
It's sad. These wing nuttery views have *consequences*, it's not good, these soldiers are too young to have a nuanced understanding. It's not good for us, having confused anti-Americanism in our own military.
This non-maintream crap really is a problem guys, it's the same with muslims -- when they get too far off into it then they get radicalized and hurt people. Enough of it.
IT'S TIME FOR A RETURN OF THE MODERATES. COMMON SENSE. NO MORE WINGNUTS. Far left stay the hell away from foreign policy, and the libertarians, you stay away too, enough. We need the moderates back. Solid, Rotary and 4H Club folk.
Bergdahl's writings sounded like all the anti-American stuff I've seen on this forum.
His father sounds like that too, and I don't know where POW Bergdahl picked it up from but these views caused him real damage. *He was clearly mixed up* and just gives up his gear and wanders off to the taliban, wtf, feeling guilty and THEN THEY MAKE HIM SUFFER FOR FIVE YEARS AS A POW. So wtf. He's lucky they didn't kill him.
It's sad. These wing nuttery views have *consequences*, it's not good, these soldiers are too young to have a nuanced understanding. It's not good for us, having confused anti-Americanism in our own military.
This non-maintream crap really is a problem guys, it's the same with muslims -- when they get too far off into it then they get radicalized and hurt people. Enough of it.
IT'S TIME FOR A RETURN OF THE MODERATES. COMMON SENSE. NO MORE WINGNUTS. Far left stay the hell away from foreign policy, and the libertarians, you stay away too, enough. We need the moderates back. Solid, Rotary and 4H Club folk.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Quinny » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 16:44:45
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Sixstrings » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 17:00:34
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'N')ever heard of Operation Cyclone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
You know what, Quinn? The West really could lose, and you could see Russian / Chinese style dictatorships take hold everywhere as the West falls and they take the lead in the world.
You could see the National Front gain power in France, and Putin-supporting far right in power all over Europe, and China dominating Asia and censoring all of our internet -- because God forbid we be free people and able to read about Tianemen Square.
You could see all that happen, Quinn, and you'd still be talking about the 1980s and how bad the West is.
I know about the Soviet war in afghanistan, what's your point about it?
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 17:10:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.').. POW Bergdahl ...THEY MAKE HIM SUFFER FOR FIVE YEARS AS A POW....
Actually, the army never classified Bergdahl as a POW.
POW status is reserved for lawful combatants.
Someone who deserts is NOT a combatant. Because the Army strongly suspected that Bergdahl deserted, he was never officially listed as a POW.
YES, Bergdahl was a captive of the Haqanni network--NO, he was not a POW.
The real issue here is if Bergdahl willingly went to the Taliban and collaborated with them...if so, then he would be a traitor in addition to being a deserter.
Raising concern that Bergdahl may be a traitor are statement from the Taliban that Bergdahl was training them in US tactics and teaching them how to make explosive devices. Perhaps that is just BS, like Obama's claim that Bergdahl is a hero, but certainly army investigators will want to learn exactly what Bergdahl did while he was with the Haqqani network.
hero or deserter or traitor?
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