[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '@')Plant

There was no accumulation in any Soviet bloc socialist country .

[americandream]

@ Plant

Listen, you cannot have commodification unless the tendency to accumulate is present in the culture.

In simple English, you cannot scratch your arse unless there is an itch. However, you may scratch your arse to annoy your neignhour.

The latter is not a function of the arse but a consequence of your relationship with your neighbour and can be jettisoned at will (should said neighbour depart for greener pastures).

I hope this explanation of tendencies for simpletons gets though to what passes for a brain in there.

And again, I refer you to pictures of commuting, East Berlin and Moscow style pre infection by the capitalist crazies, widely available on google (and often the source of derision in the car mad West.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', ' ')you cannot scratch your arse unless there is an itch. However, you may scratch your arse to annoy your neignhour. The latter is not a function of the arse but a consequence of your relationship with your neighbour

[americandream]

@ Plant

I will remind you of the arse analogy I used and suggest you use a little bit of imagination (the pictures of these things in non-commodified societies is interesting also). Mao was a nationalist. Tito and Lenin/Stalin were ideologues. Cultures were structured accordingly notwithstanding a few variations designed to soothe Western sentiment that communism is all modesty and restraint, which it incidentally is.

[ralfy]

Climate change will kill off capitalism through environmental damage, which contributes to a resource crunch.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')I will remind you of the arse...

[americandream]

@ Plant

We are here talking about a steady state system (culture) to deal with the approaching showdown between the planet and cornucopia and this is the best you can do. Ah well, like I said, not too bright.

[KaiserJeep]

Reading this thread (and the others related to Capitalism) reminds me of two things:

1) The basic Liberal vs. Conservative divide. "Liberals" tend to focus on intentions while ignoring results. "Conservatives" tend to focus on results and ignore intentions. Very few of the people who self-identify as one or the other also understand this difference, which leads to endless bafflement.

2) The results of Capitalism are irrefutable: more happiness for more people than any other system. Steady advances in technology, productivity, personal wealth, and human rights. It matters not whether this was the intent or not, because the system itself ensures that as you improve the quality of life for yourself, you drag the others around you upwards as well. That is what the unending success of the so-called Western Capitalist Democracies is all about: millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions of people each benefiting the others by continuous entirely selfish actions.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Communists are the greatest mass murderers in human history. There is nothing modest or restrained about the 80-100 million people estimated killed in the 20th century due to communism.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'R')eading this thread (and the others related to Capitalism) reminds me of two things:

1) The basic Liberal vs. Conservative divide. "Liberals" tend to focus on intentions while ignoring results. "Conservatives" tend to focus on results and ignore intentions. Very few of the people who self-identify as one or the other also understand this difference, which leads to endless bafflement.

2) The results of Capitalism are irrefutable: more happiness for more people than any other system. Steady advances in technology, productivity, personal wealth, and human rights. It matters not whether this was the intent or not, because the system itself ensures that as you improve the quality of life for yourself, you drag the others around you upwards as well. That is what the unending success of the so-called Western Capitalist Democracies is all about: millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions of people each benefiting the others by continuous entirely selfish actions.

[dissident]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'R')eading this thread (and the others related to Capitalism) reminds me of two things:

1) The basic Liberal vs. Conservative divide. "Liberals" tend to focus on intentions while ignoring results. "Conservatives" tend to focus on results and ignore intentions. Very few of the people who self-identify as one or the other also understand this difference, which leads to endless bafflement.

2) The results of Capitalism are irrefutable: more happiness for more people than any other system. Steady advances in technology, productivity, personal wealth, and human rights. It matters not whether this was the intent or not, because the system itself ensures that as you improve the quality of life for yourself, you drag the others around you upwards as well. That is what the unending success of the so-called Western Capitalist Democracies is all about: millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions of people each benefiting the others by continuous entirely selfish actions.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '-')snip-

I don't think you can statistically prove people are any happier today under capitalism then those residing in a more socialistic society. In fact studies show the Scandinavian countries are a much happier bunch living with their social reforms then we are here in the US.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Communists are the greatest mass murderers in human history. There is nothing modest or restrained about the 80-100 million people estimated killed in the 20th century due to communism.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '-')snip-

I don't think you can statistically prove people are any happier today under capitalism then those residing in a more socialistic society. In fact studies show the Scandinavian countries are a much happier bunch living with their social reforms then we are here in the US.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')it really wasn't Marxism. The former USSR ... a Kleptocracy.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '-')snip-

It sounds nice, but in the real world Marxism is disasterous.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '-')snip-

It sounds nice, but in the real world Marxism is disasterous.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '-')snip-

It sounds nice, but in the real world Marxism is disasterous.

[Shaved Monkey]

Capitalism invented and thrives on planned obsolescence.
No better way to produce lots of CO2 than to waste resources and artificially manufacture demand.

[Plantagenet]

The whole idea that socialism will stop climate change is silly. Socialists are quite capable of burning coal and building cars and spewing CO2 into the air.