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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Your predictions about the future

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby NorthernLine » Wed 31 Jul 2013, 16:51:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '/')derail.


Well and truly off the rails there :)
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby Beery1 » Wed 31 Jul 2013, 17:14:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'I')n Minneapolis, bikes lanes will be on most major roads.


I doubt it.

There are a number of problems with bike facilities that no one in the US (at least no one with any influence) seems willing to address right now, because bike lanes seem like a no-brainer. However...

1. Bike lanes go against the basic principles of transportation engineering, in that they introduce complications to the roadway especially at intersections, which leads to the fact that...

2. Bike facilities have been found, in study after study, to pose more risk to cyclists than a standard roadway. They lead to increased collisions at intersections which counteract any safety increase elsewhere. This has been shown in many studies which I've compiled here: http://ianbrettcooper.blogspot.com/2012 ... udies.html

3. In Europe, especially in places like Denmark, where cycling is truly taken seriously as a mode of transportation, specialized bicycle infrastructure is being phased out and replaced with bike boulevards and reduced speed limits that enable safe integration of cyclists into the general traffic system. The age of the bike lane is pretty much over, except in places like Britain and the USA which are still installing door zone bike lanes, bicycle boxes and so-called 'protected' cycle tracks - facilities which are known in Europe to be dangerous.

Bike lanes are currently very popular in the US, because they are rare enough that their flaws are not yet obvious (except to cycling safety experts) and because they make novice cyclists 'feel' safe. As they get more common and as more and more people use them and see how hazardous they actually are, there will be a backlash. I foresee another 5 to 10 years of growth (maybe more) of bicycle facilities in the US, followed by a return to the concept of integration of cyclists into the general traffic system. Hopefully, this will coincide with a reduction in automobile traffic due to increasingly high gasoline prices. Then there may be a renaissance in bicycle transportation, the like of which the USA has not seen since the 1890s. At least, that's my hope, but it won't happen if bike lanes continue to be popular among transportation officials and planners. Integration, not segregation, is the key.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby Guthrum » Wed 31 Jul 2013, 18:42:22

Most of us want specific predictions about the future. How much the stock market rises or falls? How will I pay for my retirement? How much will petrol cost? What will be the best jobs? For such specific predictions, no one's crystal ball is any better than anyone else's - mine included. It's actually broken - it doesn't predict winning lottery tickets worth a damn! So for those, you're on your own.
General predictions about the future can be more accurate because vast amounts of data will depict trends. It doesn't mean "we" (the collective, mass "we") can do anything about the trend, but we do get reasonably accurate road signs. History also gives a guide if comparable fact scenarios can be discerned and analysed.
In terms of a general prediction about "collapse", the only thing we can predict for sure is that it will be very slow. The collapse of the Western Roman Empire took about 300 years - 180 (the death of Marcus Aurelius) to 485 (the bundling off of Romulus Augustulus). That's a process over a time span beyond the ken or witness of generations. The classic Maya collapse took about 150 years (roughly 800 to 950). Again, beyond the ken or witness of generations. These long periods are of course punctuated by black swans - events that erupt, have their effect and then fade. But the whole process is slow, slow, slow.
So to answer your question: in ten years time, the world, in aggregate, will look much like it does today, except there will be a slightly elevated level of economic and general stress due to peak oil and perhaps a black swan or two. You should prepare yourself for it - and no matter what, you will adapt. In 150 years however, we're back in the year 500. That will be right out of Martin of Tours: gangs of thugs fighting each other in the depopulated ruins. But none of us will be here for that.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby rollin » Wed 31 Jul 2013, 19:03:59

Ten years from now the world will be entering or be in the midst of an economic depression. Twenty years from now will be vastly different from now, the details of which will be set by our actions in the next ten years.

Western culture will attempt to slowly convert to more sustainable energy sources and methods. However, the developing world will want to enjoy the growth and prosperity that western culture had. This will present a threat to western societies and cause new conflicts, thus distracting the world further from a path that might be successful. Eventually resource depletion and climate change will put so much stress on the system that collapses will occur world wide.
Once in a while the peasants do win. Of course then they just go and find new rulers, you think they would learn.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby GregT » Wed 31 Jul 2013, 21:09:22

I think that it is almost impossible to forecast with any accuracy, at exactly what point in time that everything will unravel. There are far too many variables and different complex systems intertwined, to pinpoint the one that will start the dominoes to fall. If I were to take a guess, I would have to say that sometime between 2020, and 2030, modern industrial society will completely crash.

I see a perfect storm brewing, of resource scarcity, environmental degradation, overpopulation, non sustainable economic and monetary policies, demographics, and climatic disruptions. Any one of these alone has the potential to cause a fall. All of them are complex in nature, and all complex systems tend to not end with a slow decline, they tend to reach tipping points before rapid and catastrophic collapse.

The exponential function is often overlooked, or simply not understood. A quick look at any hockey stick shaped chart, shows that there is a point at which exponential growth (or decline) quickly goes to infinity. We are surrounded by hockey stick shaped charts, and they are telling us that trends are not linear, they are rapidly accelerating. Everywhere.

People tend to focus on only one, or even a couple of our predicaments. To not look at the big picture, is to not look at reality. The reality is, we have surpassed the carrying capacity of the planet earth, and we are living on borrowed time, provided to us by fossil fuels.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 01 Aug 2013, 01:11:22

Here's some of the most blatant statements I've seen in public about what I've been describing:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-3 ... -risk.html

"Bernanke told lawmakers July 17 that low inflation poses a risk to the economy, and policy makers “will act as needed” to ensure it rises toward their goal. "

Deflation will not be permitted under any circumstances.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby radon1 » Thu 01 Aug 2013, 07:17:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NorthernLine', ' ')60+ million people in the UK live on an island that can't grow anywhere near enough food. We need the imports.


The UK have been one of the largest buyers of arable land throughout the world lately, for a good reason. So things may turn out to be OK, you may just need to come back to the good old business of running overseas territories.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby Pops » Thu 01 Aug 2013, 08:17:34

Aside from resource issues, the biggest "societal" change happening now is the transition to the "Jetson" economy. If you are old enough or had Nickelodeon you remember George Jetson, the guy in the future whose job, one hour a day one day a week was to push one button, one time.

George had a good life, a pretty wife (a homemaker overworked by the need to push a button to cook and clean), nice house on a pole up in the sky, a couple of flying saucers, 2 cute kids and a robotic maid. His boss, Mr. Spacely I think, was a grump as bosses are but had invested wisely in automation which made Geo's job so simple.

So here is the thing, what happens to the rest of us? Not everyone is cut out to be a one-button operator and even if we were, the point of automation is to pay as few as possible so that Spacely can pocket as much profit as possible.

The political pendulum has swung toward the owners easing their tax burden the last 50 years, that's part of the "wealth inequality" bit, but the far bigger factor is automation, transportation and labor arbitrage. The latter two will sort themselves out (though not in 10 years) but automation I think is the biggie. One way or another people need to make a living but not everyone is equipped to push that one button, and the whole point is to not need them to, not need them to do anything except consume.

So if everyone can't be like George, how does the future look to the average Joe?

The cartoon is no help but maybe a hint is that we never get to see the ground. Could be there is a good reason George and family are forced live up in the sky
.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 01 Aug 2013, 09:36:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')ne way or another people need to make a living...


Gradually, and ever so quietly, this is becoming no longer true. Groups of people, need *one* person to make a living, as in draw a regular salary/bonus/commission thing. Those who are not equipped to build, manage, and maintain the automation will have to rely on their provider, or their barista tips, or their SNAP cards.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o if everyone can't be like George, how does the future look to the average Joe?


I think we already see it... a day spent in an apartment with the A/C off, watching American Idol reruns and eating generic corn flakes. A daily ration of metformin, simvastatin, and lisinopril to offset the unfortunate consequences, and poof, (almost)everyone makes it comfortably to 75 then croaks. easy-peasy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ould be there is a good reason George and family are forced live up in the sky


We mustn't mingle with the riff-raff. Bad for the corporate image.
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And so shall we remain,
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby Pops » Thu 01 Aug 2013, 19:13:07

You've always been right about one thing AR; fat people don't riot.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 01 Aug 2013, 21:01:20

my prediction for the future is we will all have flying cars, be able to push a button and get any kind of food delivered to us by some sort of computer and have robot maids named Rossie....hold on, I think that was a Hanna Babera cartoon when I was a youth based on the predictions of the late fifties (see Popular Mechanics/Popular Science) for what we should have seen not that long ago. Well it has to happen sooner or later.... :wink:

I do have to say the fifties was a much more pleasant time....everyone was positive, if you were the kind of doom and gloomer that is more common these days someone would sort you out in a physical sort of way. Wonder where it all went awry?
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Re: Your predictions about the future

Unread postby sparky » Fri 02 Aug 2013, 20:14:43

.
Loved the Jetson , same as I loved the Flintstones
thoses were optimistic times , everybody was getting better off
the rate of power consumption is the rate of happiness
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