Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Buddy_J » Wed 13 Mar 2013, 00:46:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')He imagines a world involving continuous spending, borrowing from China, and rosie everything because....he thinks it must be so.


He wants to lower our standard of living until we look up to the third-world countries as our salvation.


I don't know if he WANTS to, but his lack of experience (with anything really), combined with one of those Harvard "know better than the citizens who made this country great (including those toting Bibles and guns) because our bleeding heart school told us so" attitudes seems to be generally taking us in that direction, doesn't it?
Buddy_J
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun 03 Feb 2013, 12:07:44

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Beery1 » Wed 13 Mar 2013, 09:22:01

The WORST RECESSION EVER is hardly likely to be followed by a robust recovery.

I think Plantagenet and his cronies need to take some time out to recognize that their preferred policies were what got us into this mess in the first place. Until then, this thread is merely an exercise in hypocrisy.
"I'm gonna have to ask you boys to stop raping our doctor."
Beery1
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue 17 Jan 2012, 21:31:15

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Mar 2013, 11:06:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('harrisonlw', 'I')nteresting to note that US economic sentiment has improved, despite this being a painfully slow recovery, according to a Gallup index. The score for this latest index was -17, an improvement on -22 when the budget sequestration took place.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161243/econo ... -slip.aspx


There are some real silver linings in this economic cloud.
The stock market is at record highs----housing is starting to pick up-----the unemployment rate continues to inch down.

If only we could ignore things like the fall in wages, the fact that many jobs now are only part time so employers can avoid obsmacare taxes, and the very very low GDP growth rate (0.1% in q4 2012) then we wouldn't still be in the WORST RECOVERY EVER 8)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Buddy_J » Wed 13 Mar 2013, 11:15:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '
')
I think Plantagenet and his cronies need to take some time out to recognize that their preferred policies were what got us into this mess in the first place. Until then, this thread is merely an exercise in hypocrisy.


Plantagenet has preferred policies? Or King George? Interesting...things Obama would never touch with a ten foot pole probably. Like using drones to knock out bad guys, invading foreign countries to take out some important leader or another, borrowing money to fund the government, yes, those prior policies all changed quite a bit since Obama took over. Doubling down is usually what such antics are referred to.

I think the real point is that a President with prior experience would know when to try something different, but without experience, all our President is left with is his prejudices, biases, and inexperience with....well...everything else.

And what we are forced to suffer with, because of this lack of experience, is THE WORST RECOVERY EVER.
Buddy_J
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun 03 Feb 2013, 12:07:44

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby careinke » Thu 14 Mar 2013, 03:42:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')There are some real silver linings in this economic cloud.
The stock market is at record highs----housing is starting to pick up-----the unemployment rate continues to inch down.


Douglas fir is up 20% since Nov 2012. Right around $800/MBF. Four years ago it was $400. I have about 100 trees I want to clear, but I may hold on a little longer... Nice thing about trees, they store well when standing.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 5047
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 02:39:42

So far obsmacare has been a job killer with firms cutting back hours to part time and refusing to grow past 49 employees to escape the law

But dems are now predicting that obsmacare will ultimately create jobs. By forcing US workers into US insurance plans obsmacare will divert US worker's money from needless luxuries like cars or beer into more money for insurance companies who will eventually hire-----of course US insurance corps are already outsourcing more and more of their back office work to cheaper foreign subcontractors in India but at least jobs will be created somewhere
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 07:33:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Buddy_J', '
')
And what we are forced to suffer with, because of this lack of experience, is THE WORST RECOVERY EVER.


Partisan crapola. Neither of the pretend sides has any solution.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby SamInNebraska » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 10:44:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Buddy_J', '
')
And what we are forced to suffer with, because of this lack of experience, is THE WORST RECOVERY EVER.


Partisan crapola. Neither of the pretend sides has any solution.


I'm not so sure about that. There are solutions, otherwise known as spending less. unlike Obama, these people have put forward plans, instead of talking, and talking, and borrowing, and borrowing, all in the name of placating their constituents.

The plan:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 79552.html

Which is much better than the alternative:

Image
SamInNebraska
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun 14 Oct 2012, 23:05:58
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Lore » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 10:48:32

The experiment in Europe with austerity already proves that it doesn't work.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 12:15:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')he experiment in Europe with austerity already proves that it doesn't work.


Yup. It makes you wonder why Obama is stupidly pursuing ever more tax increases when the tax hikes in Europe aren't helping a bit! :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Buddy_J » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 13:55:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')he experiment in Europe with austerity already proves that it doesn't work.


Of course austerity works. People just don't like it, is all.
Buddy_J
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun 03 Feb 2013, 12:07:44
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Lore » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 14:21:52

As a percentage of GDP, revenues this year are actually lower than the historical average since World War II.

Austerity doesn't work because you can't cut your way towards prosperity. That comes from, among other things, investment in education, research and infrastructure. You don't win wars by retreating.

The continued reallocation of assets to the old wealthy corporations in the present cycle of cronie capitilism has only stifled innovation. And without innovation, no amount of austerity will drive the economy forward. We've become a creaking old, fat and decadent society.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 15:14:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '.')..you can't cut your way towards prosperity.


Austerity consists of tax hikes and spending cuts-------exactly the road Obama has taken with his payroll tax hike on all working Americans, his income tax hike on the rich, and the sequester law Obama signed into law in mid 2011.

Obama is a proven liar--- you've got to watch what he does (i.e. implement Austerity) not what he says..... 8)
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Lore » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 15:57:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '.')..you can't cut your way towards prosperity.


Austerity consists of tax hikes and spending cuts-------exactly the road Obama has taken with his payroll tax hike on all working Americans, his income tax hike on the rich, and the sequester law Obama signed into law in mid 2011.

Obama is a proven liar--- you've got to watch what he does (i.e. implement Austerity) not what he says..... 8)


The reality is the increases were scheduled ends to tax relief holidays. When you take a vacation you're expected to return back to work as usual. That still doesn't get us to Clinton era levels when the economy was booming.

The facts are we're going to need more cuts in the right places and even more revenue, but then not returning those savings back to investment banks, insurance and big pharma companies. instead, invest it, as I said above.

We haven't even begun to tackle the real culprit. The sacred cow of costs. The real problem isn't that we're spending too much, it's just that it's costing us too much for what we're getting.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby topcat » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 21:56:00

Well, the recovery is hitting here! As the locals gear up for the on-coming tourist season, one employer is going to hire 33% MORE PEOPLE!

Just read their ad in the paper!

Instead of offering the seasonal workers 30-to-35 hours per week, he is now offering them 20-to-28 hours per week.

HOOOORAUHHH!

NOW, instead of three people working 35/wk, he can hire four to work 22/wk! 33% increase in employment!

(As you may recall, Barry H. O. has lowered the "full-time" work week to 30 hours so healthcare does not come into effect.)

(Sarcasim off)
"No workey, no beef jerkey." TC

"Home is where the hot dogs are." TC
User avatar
topcat
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed 01 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Northern US

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Lore » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 22:03:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', '
')
(As you may recall, Barry H. O. has lowered the "full-time" work week to 30 hours so healthcare does not come into effect.)

(Sarcasim off)


Actually, big corporations have been playing that game for the last few decades, Walmart being one of the last a few years ago to set the no benifits limit on all new hires, keeping their work hours below 30. Capitalism is a wonderful thing (/sarcasm off)
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 16 Mar 2013, 23:51:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '.')....the increases were scheduled ends to tax relief holidays. When you take a vacation you're expected to return back to work as usual. That still doesn't get us to Clinton era levels when the economy was booming.


A tax hike is a tax hike. Obama wants higher taxes and after he won the election he pushed through legislation to raise everyone's taxes. Why pretend otherwise?

Yes tax rates were even higher under Clinton---but When Clinton was president OIL WAS $10 A BARREL!!!!!!

The economy now would be great if oil was $10 bucks a barrel---but it's not

It's just more evidence of how stupid Obama's economic policies are that he is trying to ape Clinton's tax policies and ignoring the fact oil is ten times more expensive now. No wonder this is THE WORST RECOVERY EVER. :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby Lore » Sun 17 Mar 2013, 10:00:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')A tax hike is a tax hike. Obama wants higher taxes and after he won the election he pushed through legislation to raise everyone's taxes. Why pretend otherwise?


It's the duty of every citizen that benifits from the nation as a whole to pay their fair share of taxes. Taxes are not a dirty word, they are necessary for the operation of the state and the service of its people. There is no pretending here, we need to balance the revenue with the amount of spending and cuts.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Yes tax rates were even higher under Clinton---but When Clinton was president OIL WAS $10 A BARREL!!!!!!


Yes, and average income was less too, a lot was cheaper. Today wages are flat for the average worker and the income has grown exponentially for the protected wealthy.

Prices have also gone up for the government because of the cost of oil. How then can you expect to collect less money because of it, even as a percentage of GDP, and expect the same level of services?
Last edited by Lore on Sun 17 Mar 2013, 10:32:38, edited 1 time in total.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby John_A » Sun 17 Mar 2013, 11:30:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')
Austerity doesn't work because you can't cut your way towards prosperity. That comes from, among other things, investment in education, research and infrastructure. You don't win wars by retreating.


Austerity isn't retreating. It's called "living within your means", most humans are subject to this simple rule, it seems natural that governments should give it a whirl.

As far as prosperity, are you kidding? Peak oil, climate change, religious extremists, intransigence on the past of both advocates and detractors, how does anyone figure out a return to "prosperity", let alone settling along the various parties what that even means.

The old world is gone, nothing to see, time to move along.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
') And without innovation, no amount of austerity will drive the economy forward. We've become a creaking old, fat and decadent society.


Yup. Fortunately, even for all of that there are still places where innovation is appreciated and rewarded, and America is still one of those places. Unfortunate that those who can are forced to support the socialists agenda of a political organization doing its best to make sure those qualities are forced to pay for the sins of their supporters, but maybe that is just the way the majority want it nowadays. Give them the dole, and they are happy.
45ACP: For when you want to send the very best.
John_A
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 21:16:36
Top

Re: This is the WORST RECOVERY EVER

Unread postby John_A » Sun 17 Mar 2013, 11:34:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Obama is a proven liar--- you've got to watch what he does (i.e. implement Austerity) not what he says..... 8)


Boy isn't that the truth.

Image
45ACP: For when you want to send the very best.
John_A
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 21:16:36
Top

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest