THE Blackouts/Brownouts Thread (merged)

by **pup55** » Sat 04 Jun 2005, 05:50:58

It doesn't really say in detail in the article, but I suspect that there is substantial cost in bringing the system from 95% reliability up to 99.99% reliability. That 4.99% is probably really expensive.

If there were financial issues in the nation as a whole, the first things to go will be the measures that gave us the last 5% of reliability.

In India, for example, they have not yet spent the money to get the last 4.99% of reliability. As a result, the call center industry and a lot of other businesses that need first-world reliability have installed generators, etc. to make sure they get the juice when the grid is down.

So, you'll probably see the same thing here.

I would say this is an opportunity if you are in the business of making those big industrial generators.

by **airstrip1** » Sun 05 Jun 2005, 11:48:52

Periodic electrical blackouts have been a fact of life for decades. The problem is not that the supply occasionally fails but that we have built our entire civilisation to depend on it. Back in the 1970's when I was young, industrial action by mine workers caused extensive blackouts in the UK. Yet, despite on the inconvenience and cold, my schooling was largely uninterrupted. Books could be read by natural light. Pen, paper, blackboards and chalk all operated. Now education institutions are far more dependent on electronic media. As a consequence if the same events occurred everything would grind to a halt. We have built a world so dependent on available energy that if it failed we are instantly thrown into chaos. For example, my employer, a large IT company, recently suffered a blackout at one of its data centres when the local grid failed. The backup generators on site kicked in immediately and the systems initially stayed up. However, the problem in the local power supply took longer to fix than originally envisaged. As a result the on site generator began to run low on oil. A replacement supply was ordered. Unfortunately, it could not access the site where the generator was located because the electronic gates, which were supplied from the main grid ,would not open. There was no manual way of operating them and the delivery truck was stuck in the street. Eventually the backup generator ran out of fuel and failed. Ar that point all the computer systems for a nationwide development network crashed. They could only be restored when the main grid power supply was restored. We, in our infinite wisdom, have built the capacity for cascading systems failures into every part of our lives.

by **julianj** » Sun 05 Jun 2005, 15:07:27

Airstrip one - good post - food for thought - we really need to have the manual chewing-gum-and-string backup systems for the electronic ones.

by **fossil_fuel** » Tue 07 Jun 2005, 23:30:53

what does everyone think about the likelyhood of blackouts this summer in the area where you live? i really should go out and buy some more batteries for the flashlights.... those hand-dynamo lights i bought are junk and would not be appropriate for extended usage. what does everyone think about LED flashlights? i find they don't have as good range as halogen, but the much longer battery life makes them very worthwhile.

by **DriveElectric** » Tue 07 Jun 2005, 23:36:24

I live within 50 miles of 3 nuclear power plants that produce a total of over 6,000 MW of electricity. I doubt there will be any power problems in this area.

by **Jack** » Tue 07 Jun 2005, 23:37:39

I don't expect blackouts in the US this year or next, but please let me suggest a shake-powered LED flashlight:

Look Here

60 seconds of shaking gives an hour of light. No batteries. I've used it - it works.

by **fossil_fuel** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 00:06:38

how long does it store the charge in the capacitor? my hand dynamo LED flashlight's capacitor doesn't store charge for beans, if you stop working the dynamo the light goes out less than 3 seconds later.

by **Jack** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 00:22:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fossil_fuel', 'h')ow long does it store the charge in the capacitor? my hand dynamo LED flashlight's capacitor doesn't store charge for beans, if you stop working the dynamo the light goes out less than 3 seconds later.

by **julianj** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 04:38:16

WARNING: about those shake flashlights -

I bought 2: they work fine - but there's a strong warning in small print (which was not on the mail order advert) which says they produce strong magnetic field must not be used within 3 feet of video tapes, cassette tapes, computer disks, credit cards, televisions and monitors .

That's my whole effing place

Before I noticed the warning I had just got these and used them to look for a lost screw inside my computer while doing some maintenance. It didn't reboot afterwards, probably for another reason, but it was then I noticed hte small print and had a heart attack, thinking I'd wiped the HDDs. Fortunately all was Ok.

by **rostov** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 05:05:36

I have to second that on the shakelightthingies.

Though my link is this (which warns against other brands of imitations *shrug* -- whatever) :

http://www.foreverflashlights.com/

The magnets are EXTREMELY STRONG. I got a cheap non-working non-water-proof gimmick lookalike from my local Shell station (US$4.78) which, of no surprise, broke down totally after the inbuilt lithium batteries ran flat (long story! don't ask what the batts were doing inside).

Took them apart, and they make EXCELLENT lodestone equivalents for playing (my sons LOVE THEM!) They can cause a whole metal spoon to rise from the floor up 2 inches when you hold these magnets above them.

Dangerous for harddisks or anything not immune to strong magnetic fields

by MD » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 05:43:11

Shakelights need a very strong magnetic field to induce current to the capacitor.
Try a crank light instead which uses gearing to create a faster conductor rate through a weaker magnetic field.
Watch out for cheap plastic gears though, they won't last long at all.

As for the OP, this site posted an article which claimed a 15% or so power cushion in my area this summer. I am not expecting blackouts, except the brief lightning strike variety.

by **Jack** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 08:32:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rostov', 'T')hough my link is this (which warns against other brands of imitations *shrug* -- whatever) :

http://www.foreverflashlights.com/

by **rostov** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 09:39:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rostov', 'T')hough my link is this (which warns against other brands of imitations *shrug* -- whatever) :

http://www.foreverflashlights.com/

by **FoxV** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 15:23:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DriveElectric', 'I') live within 50 miles of 3 nuclear power plants that produce a total of over 6,000 MW of electricity. I doubt there will be any power problems in this area.

by **johnmarkos** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 15:27:16

Well, so far it has been rather chilly this June on my peninsula. It actually rained this morning. Rain! In the SF Bay Area! In June! I didn't think I'd have to ride with rain gear after April.

The result is that people's houses need neither heat nor cooling. So I doubt any rolling blackouts are imminent here.

by **Specop_007** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 17:42:01

Ahhh flashlights. My wife was a bit pissed when I spent near 200 bucks on one. The next one I'm looking at?
Near 600. :shock:

I like lights.

I definately recommend getting an LED light. WELL worth the money.
I use an Elektrolumens XM-3
Good light, no complaints.
I also have a Surefire Centurion M2. I cant say enough about this light. Best light I've ever had. In fact, Surefire is pretty much the standard by which all other lights are measured. If you want the best light money can buy, get a Surefire. There pricey, but very much worth the money. My M2 easily outthrows a fullsize mag light. Its that good. Downside? Cost and battery life. These little monsters EAT batteries. And their pricey. But you cant find a better flashlight with more output.

As for lights in general. Surefire lights, among others, use a CR123 battery. The cheapest I've found them is actually from Surefire. There still expensive batteries (10 bucks for 2 at Wlamart) though. They have a 10 yeaer shelf life. 10 YEARS. So, I'd definately recommend getting a CR123 based light just because you can load it up, get a couple extra sets of batteries and put it away and forget about it. Alkalines dont last nearly as long, which is always a concern. If it were me I'd get both a incandescent light for the throw and output, and an LED light for the battery live. Surefire makes an LED light which would be nice in terms of battery use, as with a 10 year shelf life plus long run time you have a virtually perfect light.

If my only concern was runtime, I'd get a Lightwave 3000 or 4000. There rated for a continous runtime of nearly 30 days on 1 set of batteries. 30 DAYS CONTINOUS! Definately, its gonna be a "bad day" if you use up a set of batteries on these.

You can go to Flashlight Reviews for more information about lights.

But were it me, I'd definately get a Surefire for the output (probably a G2, there FAR cheaper) and probably a SureFire LED light. That way they share batteries. I'd also get a Lightwave 3 or 4k soley due to battery runtime. Then I'd get some other LED light for general use. If your real hardcore, get nicads for all of them that take it and get a solar recharger.

by **nth** » Wed 08 Jun 2005, 17:54:23

No blackouts this year. If next year's economy goes up, then maybe next year in california might have blackouts.

Actually, there are always blackouts from storms and faulty equipments here. Does that count?

by **rostov** » Wed 06 Jul 2005, 20:39:23

For what it's worth, I'm reviving this thread. Jack's link on the shakelights led here. They updated the link, and made the old site redirect, but I'm not sure for how long.

by **Kingcoal** » Wed 06 Jul 2005, 20:43:21

Why rolling blackouts? Do you have some inside info? I'm more worried about $100/bl oil this year!

by **LadyRuby** » Wed 06 Jul 2005, 20:50:45

No blackouts here (other than those caused by thunderstorms), almost no one uses air conditioner and we're mostly hydroelectric power.

THE Blackouts/Brownouts Thread (merged)

rolling blackouts this summer?

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