[Nike62]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '[')img]http://fusionwaste.com/Doodads/shtf.gif[/img]

[MicroHydro]

http://www.hklaw.com/Publications/Newsl ... ticle=3023

On April 20, 2005, President Bush signed into law the Bankruptcy Abuse and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 (the Act). The Act encompasses the most comprehensive overhaul of the Bankruptcy Code in nearly 30 years. The new law, while primarily aimed at curbing perceived abuses of the bankruptcy process by consumer debtors, contains a number of provisions impacting business bankruptcies as well. The effective date for the majority of the amendments is October 17, 2005, 180 days from the date of enactment of the Act. The majority of the amendments are applicable only to those cases filed on or after the effective date.

[RonMN]

at this point, the ONLY way i could imagine a slow motion breakdown would be if everybody was UNaware of PO, UNaware of the debt & deficits, and UNaware of the declining dollar value. Since that's not the case...well, who's gonna stay in a stock market once it becomes painfully obvious that growth is no longer possible?

Once everybody starts selling stocks the market collapses, the dollar collapses, the banks lock their doors...and from that point it's anybodies guess.

[pea-jay]

I agree that somewhere along the line there will be a snapping or great unraveling of everything. I think it will require more pressure however before everything breaks.

Fuel is expensive, but still below what it cost in the 70s (adjusted for inflation)
Oil still has not peaked. It may be close, but not quite yet
Debt levels are at an all time high, but still sustainable (as long as there is economic growth and an interest by our creditors to continue to lend)
Unemployment is still low
Peak oil may have been mentioned by the MSM but too many distractions keep it from being comprehended
The financial system (banks, stock funds are ultimately vulnerable but in the near term, secure)

I do think the froggie will go pop. I just don't think it will happen this year.

(It better not dammit)

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skiwi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e're so far out on a limb, that its not going just slowly sag, its going to break.

[EddieB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') do feel like I'm out on a limb about to be chopped off. Its coming from all sides.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Man, talk about synchronicity (where have you been EnviroEngineer?) I was just reading, Eddie, in Catton's book Overshoot the following quote:

'War may be Hell - but under conditions of severe population pressure it can be attractive, because it offers relief from anxiety about our own redundancy.'

When there are too many people, everybody starts getting edgy about their place in the big scheme of things.

[EddieB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')atton's book Overshoot

[thuja]

You may have heard of the story of the frog placed in a pot of water that is being slowly heated. By the time the frog realizes that its getting really hot, its too late and the frog gets boiled.

When I read about post-peak here, I see a lot of people talking about defending themselves from the refugee hordes, desperate to find a safe place or food to eat. But like the frog in the boiling pot of water, I doubt that most people will leave- they will die where they live- often due to poverty, but much more likely to do with inertia.

Take a look at this story about folks in Australia-

http://news.independent.co.uk/environme ... 491768.ece

They are going through a massive sustained drought that is now affecting every aspect of their lives. Most of them are hoping that the drought will end soon and will sacrifice dearly to not have to jump ship. Most folks are like those frogs- they won't do anything about it until its too late...

[auscanman]

Agreed, a large number will remain in cities waiting for the government to give them meager handouts and to be told what to do. But, I would expect a good 5% or so of the population who are unprepared to be willing to take huge risks to try to get everything they can for themselves... that will be a significant number and they're the ones that will be dangerous.

[Pops]

I agree, people expect things to right themselves whenever they go wrong – if, in fact, they have ever experienced things going wrong at all.

Too, the folks in the upper half of the economic spectrum are more likely to have less hardship at least in the middle term. Of course the bottom quarter will have the most trouble either pulling up stakes or making any real change in their situation.

Some people in there, those with fewer hard assets but some type of practical skill will be the ones attempting relocation from bigger towns to (in my estimation) less tumultuous environs - my bet is they will not be a hazard as much as an asset should they relocate near me.

As far as being worried about safety, for my taste, I am too close (about an hour) from two sorta big towns and about 7 miles from the interstate - but Hey, you can’t have everything! The local matinee-rowdies will stick around town and prey on the above mentioned upper-class and each other, unfortunately there will certainly be the bad boys out for a last hurrah – one does need to watch for them. But overall my thought is most folks will stay with where and what they know until the bitter end, whether dealing furniture or dealing crank.

Which is fine with me.

[magician]

yeah the girl and i are part of the aforementioned class of asset-less poor. we work jobs at 7.00 an hour or bar jobs. but we both have a huge array of skill that we have been honing. this allows us to rent a house, run it and save half our income every month. between quasi gourmet cooking, bike repair, sewing, diy, common law, serious outdoor skills, serious medicinal herbal skills and production capital for plant extracts ect, we can run our energy effeciant two story rental house on nothing a month compared to most appt dwellers. we also have a huge (for a downtown yard) organic garden for veggies and medicine. im thinking of raising rabbits.

we have had most of these skills for years with my experience going back to early high school (im 26). we are both college dropouts and have no real accreditation other than great resume's in restraunin richmond that ride would have been 200 miles. instead of trying to make ends meet in the ghetto, living with high crime and gang activity we are fully integrated into our midsize city and important members of our community with lots of business and social connections. the poor can relocate but they had better have more dicipline and skills than shopping at the mall, watching tv, getting into debt and trying to live their parents lifestyle. ts and animal care respectively . we moved from richmond va to huntington wv about 3 years ago with a wad of saved cash and a bed in our recently aquired minivan. best decision of our lives was to go carfree when we got here. i can leave my house and be in foothills alone in the woods for miles in a 15 minute bike ride. in richmond that ride would have been 200 miles. instead of trying to make ends meet in the ghetto, living with high crime and gang activity we are fully integrated into our midsize city and important members of our community with lots of business and social connections. the poor can relocate but they had better have more dicipline and skills than shopping at the mall, watching tv, getting into debt and trying to live their parents lifestyle.

--frater coyote

[Pops]

Power to you two magician!

We’ll all be looking back fondly at $7/hr one day I’m afraid – don’t forget, they can take everything you have except what’s between your ears.

[Golgo13]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '.').don�t forget, they can take everything you have except what�s between your ears.