Freezing gas prices cryogenically

by **skiwi** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 05:21:42

Freezing Gas Prices

Americans guzzle 65 billion gallons of fuel a year and lately we have been paying a pretty penny at the pump. NewsChannel 4 has done reports in the past on how to get the most out of your gas. Now we introduce you to a new way to save on those gasoline dollars.

There is a man who fills up his tank once every two months. One tank of gas, literally, lasts him two months. He is freezing the price of gas by freezing something else...

..Hutchison cryogenically tempers machine parts, tools, golf clubs and even razors. He says it makes them last three to five times longer.

A few years ago he began an experiment on his hybrid Honda, freezing the engine components. The results were a fuel-efficiency dream.

David Hutchison says, “You should expect a “Cryo'd” engine to last anywhere from 600,000 to 1 million miles without wearing out.”

A hybrid Honda typically gets really great gas mileage anyway, around 50 miles to the gallon, but David Hutchison's cryogenically tempered engine has been known to get close to 120 miles a gallon...

by **savethehumans** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 06:00:11

I've saved this to disc, skiwi. A car that might live as long as a human being (or longer!) and get obscenely high mileage--this dude is MY kind of thinker!

Think he could do something with buses and trains? Since mass transit is going to be where we wind up? And maybe on biofuel as well as gas?

This is a hopeful story, and there are precious few of them these days!
:-D

by **Devil** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 07:29:15

1. How Much Energy is Returned for the Energy Invested (EROEI)?
2. Have the claims been verified by an independent third party?
3. Can I see the alternative energy being used?
4. Can you trace it back to the original energy source?
5. Does the invention defy the Laws of Thermodynamics?
6. Does the inventor make extravagant claims?
7. Does the inventor claim zero pollution?
8. Can I see blueprints, schematics or a chemical analysis of how it works?
9. Infrastructure Requirements -- Does the energy source require a corporation to produce it? How will it be transported and used? Will it require new engines, pipelines, and filling stations? What will these cost? Who will pay for them and with what? How long will it take to build them?

In particular questions 2, 3 and 6. I'm not a metallurgist, but I have some notions of the art. As a general rule, phase changes in alloys may occur at any temperature, so the original premisse is not far-fetched. However, given time, such solid phase changes are generally reversible or may go into a third phase, which I presume the guy is claiming here. However, if mechanical wear of a metal is decreased, it means that it must be harder and, if it is harder, it will become more brittle so therefore more likely to break. His claim of going from 50 to 120 mpg is extremely suspicious, because this defies logic. No matter how hard the metals, the fuel consumption is unlikely to be significantly better.

I would wish to see scientific corroboration of the claims before I would invest a penny in the technology.

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

by **heyhoser** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 08:42:28

Cyrogenic International Auto

All I can find regarding cyrogenic freezing is information from businesses, no university research. Also, each business seems unable to back up their claims with any scientific data, and even goes so far as to make claims such as,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ryogenics International treated spark plugs showed an increase from 9 to 25 horsepower on a V-8 racing engine and also increased gas mileage.
Source - A racing engine builder.

by **Devil** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 10:17:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ryogenics International treated spark plugs showed an increase from 9 to 25 horsepower on a V-8 racing engine and also increased gas mileage.
Source - A racing engine builder.

by **khebab** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 11:31:24

This is very fishy. Here in Canada, when it goes down to -35 deg. Celsius on some winter morning I have to warm up my car for half an hour before using it and it takes a lot of gas. Sure materials behaves differently at lower temperature but not in the direction of more efficiency, in particular parts made of rubber becomes a lot less flexible than usual and the oil in my transmission a lot more viscous. I just can't imagine what kind of positive impact cryogenic temperature could bring.

by **pilferage** » Wed 01 Jun 2005, 15:31:42

http://www.carbotecheng.com/cryostudy1.html#Conclusions
http://www.carbotecheng.com/cryostudy2.html#Conclusions
http://www.bso.uiuc.edu/~chillar/Cryoge ... Metals.pdf
There's tons of stuff out there, but I'm no engineer.

I believe his claim of 120mpg is a half-truth.
For example, let's say I only use my Camry for trips greater than 40 miles, and due to my driving habits get ~40% better mileage than the average Camry driver. If I want to hype acetone, I can state After using acetone I noticed a definite increase in gas mileage. lets say a 44% increase versus 40% Now I get 44% greater gas mileage than your average Camry driver.
Most would assume that the acetone results in the 44% increase...
and what I stated wasn't lying persay... :razz:

by **Devil** » Thu 02 Jun 2005, 08:22:27

As I said before, I was quite willing to accept phase changes happening under some circumstances and that these could cause some alloys to harden. The tool steel in your first reference is a pretty expensive alloy (Fe-12.2wt%Cr-0.84wt%Mo-0.43wt%V-1.44wt%C) and nothing like the metals used in engines or other car parts.

Even if spark plug electrodes were harder, please explain to me how they could confer an extra 9 - 25% more power out of an engine. They are not even moving parts! While you're about it, please explain to me what effect harder cylinder linings, piston rings and crankshafts would have? Possibly better longevity if they didn't break, but more power or better fuel consumption? PLEEEEEEZE.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') believe his claim of 120mpg is a half-truth

by **Aaron** » Thu 02 Jun 2005, 08:33:25

So if it's the cold that does it, we could have our cars launched into orbit for a tune up in the deep cold of space!

The savings would outweigh the costs of the launch, so eroei is no problem.

Actually, perhaps the inventor should have his brain frozen instead.

William of Occam politely excuses himself to avoid laughing in your face...

by **pilferage** » Mon 06 Jun 2005, 16:16:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devil', 'A')s I said before, I was quite willing to accept phase changes happening under some circumstances and that these could cause some alloys to harden. The tool steel in your first reference is a pretty expensive alloy (Fe-12.2wt%Cr-0.84wt%Mo-0.43wt%V-1.44wt%C) and nothing like the metals used in engines or other car parts.

by **cube** » Mon 06 Jun 2005, 19:44:57

by **pilferage** » Tue 07 Jun 2005, 01:29:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', ':')roll:

by **Devil** » Tue 07 Jun 2005, 03:07:52

Pilferage

Maybe not Caltech nor MIT, but at least a credible scientific source. There is enough questionable "data" to smell a rat from 2 km away. As for your argument about mpg, that is a pathetic apology for a semantic scam. You even put "increased surface area" and "reduced friction" in the same sentence.

I rest my case.

by **pilferage** » Tue 07 Jun 2005, 03:43:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devil', 'P')ilferage

Maybe not Caltech nor MIT, but at least a credible scientific source. There is enough questionable "data" to smell a rat from 2 km away.

by **shogun350** » Tue 12 Sep 2006, 23:11:48

if your really into saving that much gas, look into something more constructive. while honestly i dont know the ins and outs of cryo, i do actually know some small time pro drag racers that get thier components cryoed. and not one of them raves about the better fuel economy-which believe it or not is a topic in the staging lanes-they do rant about how they can use cheaper components and cryo them, when the cost difference merrits, and have more passes, smoother shift etc. etc.. but nothing about any fuel efficient gain. if your looking for better milage, 100 gpm is possible on 91 OCT. try looking into TCC thermal catalytic cracking and 'super carbs' that applie to fuel injection as well.

oh and dont go bash each other and then use a goddamn smiley face like its some kind of diacritic and will somehow not piss someone off. like they're going to say "What! He wrote he banged my wife on the coffee table... oh but he used a smiley so its ok" . i swear you talk like a bunch of chicks

by **Rabbit** » Wed 13 Sep 2006, 00:43:19

I personally believe in the strength benefits of cryoed parts and I use treated parts at my place of work (off-road truck shop). We use these parts is in the differential and transfer case for extra strength. These units run just as hot as units built with non cryoed parts. I can't imagine any way that treated engine parts would increase millage even one little bit.

by **What2DO** » Wed 13 Sep 2006, 01:45:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shogun350', 'i')f your really into saving that much gas, look into something more constructive. while honestly i dont know the ins and outs of cryo, i do actually know some small time pro drag racers that get thier components cryoed. and not one of them raves about the better fuel economy-which believe it or not is a topic in the staging lanes-they do rant about how they can use cheaper components and cryo them, when the cost difference merrits, and have more passes, smoother shift etc. etc.. but nothing about any fuel efficient gain. if your looking for better milage, 100 gpm is possible on 91 OCT. try looking into TCC thermal catalytic cracking and 'super carbs' that applie to fuel injection as well.

oh and dont go bash each other and then use a goddamn smiley face like its some kind of diacritic and will somehow not piss someone off. like they're going to say "What! He wrote he banged my wife on the coffee table... oh but he used a smiley so its ok" . i swear you talk like a bunch of chicks

by **What2DO** » Wed 13 Sep 2006, 01:54:58

Here's a website for a company that does this all the time perhaps one of you can contact them and get some information and data your looking for.

http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/

by **What2DO** » Wed 13 Sep 2006, 02:14:40

Also you might be thinking why then have'nt the car companies started doing this? perhaps because it would cut into their bottom line, if the engine runs better and last much longer and needs less servicing over the cars life then guess what they wont make as much money. The car companies right now are trying to find a way to keep their profits up and at the sametime to please the public and government, but in the long run they will have to face realitiy just like the oil companies, if they were really smart they would all strat to invest their compaines in alternative specially solar, along with teamming up with power companies. But this is just MHO.

Freezing gas prices cryogenically

Freezing gas prices cryogenically

Re: this is all a load of crap.

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Re: this is all a load of crap.

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