[radon]

What may happen in the medium term is repricing. Suppose you have $20k budget for the car and $200k budget for the house. AE cars are more expensive than conventional ones - there are complaints in the relevant threads here that AE cars are too expensive and insecure.

Yet houses in remoter locations are becoming cheaper as commuting costs increase. So we may finish up with having to pay $50k for the car and $150k for the house that we are OK with, a total of $200k which is well within the limits of our aggregate budget - at some point a new equilibrium will be established, at least for a while. This could be just a matter of psychological adjustment that the vehicles are no longer that cheap in comparison to houses.

[AgentR11]

Better answer, pay $5k for the car, $2k for the bicycle, and $90k for the house.
If you absolutely must commute some distance, get a scooter too, and use the car only for nasty weather commutes.
Its amazing how easy life gets when you jiggle the numbers like that.

[ObiWan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')Its amazing how easy life gets when you jiggle the numbers like that.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')Ibon, I have to take issue with that statement. I think there will be price spikes that will price many poor people out of existence, indirectly or perhaps directly. We already see signs of that shaping up. For example, some Northeastern US states are cutting back on energy subsidies for the poor because they can no longer afford them. Some people could, and probably will, freeze to death this winter because of that. Or one could point to the huge inflation going on in food costs.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.')..the assessment of survival of our modern society going forward is more accurate when you focus on how many will adapt and flourish and not on the percentage who will perish and fail to adapt.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', ' ')I think there will be price spikes that will price many poor people out of existence, indirectly or perhaps directly. We already see signs of that shaping up. For example, some Northeastern US states are cutting back on energy subsidies for the poor because they can no longer afford them. Some people could, and probably will, freeze to death this winter because of that.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.')..the assessment of survival of our modern society going forward is more accurate when you focus on how many will adapt and flourish and not on the percentage who will perish and fail to adapt.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'A')ll those people will have an option to move in together and /or heat a small part of their house instead. There is no need to spend public funds to heat a 2000 sq ft house in order to keep one old ass warm and toasty. There are sweaters and warm socks also.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'I') am referring to the energy available to avoid a short term collapse. Also the energy available to enable one to adapt. Not all will.
As potentially cruel as it may be from an early 21st century perspective the assessment of survival of our modern society going forward is more accurate when you focus on how many will adapt and flourish and not on the percentage who will perish and fail to adapt.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')
This last comment is just a flavor or reminder of questions that were typically raised several years ago before PO.com changed...... in keeping with the theme of this thread

[SeaGypsy]

Steve, you have a lot more friends here than you know. People are just too damned busy.
Do you recall the effort a certain PO friend made to try to help you a couple of years ago?
Did you get good advice? Did you follow it? That's friendship too, you know?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')Ibon, I guess what I was referring to most in my OP was my perception of a change in the "spirit," tone, and communicativeness of people here. If, as you (and others) imply, there's been a change in the content of participation, that gets added on to my complaint.

I recall that the sense of community was so strong here that some people actually wanted to join up and form intentional communities!

But as I said in the OP, maybe it's I who have changed. I was away for a long time, some of the best people I knew are gone, people aren't as enthusiastically responsive . . . I felt like a stranger here and still do.

[Heineken]

Thanks, Gypsy and Ibon. You make good points as always.

Not having enough time is a modern disease. We live longer than our forebears, but have less time to live.

The older I get, the shorter the days get. They positively whirl by.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')teve, you have a lot more friends here than you know. People are just too damned busy.
Do you recall the effort a certain PO friend made to try to help you a couple of years ago?
Did you get good advice? Did you follow it? That's friendship too, you know?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'P')retorian, many of the people I'm referring to live in small apartments in urban areas. And sweaters and socks only go so far. Lots of old and sick folks are found frozen to death wrapped in layer after layer of clothes. Or the cold doesn't kill directly, but contributes to debilitation. ...
You're quite right that such things will happen, but that's getting into collapse mode.

[ErrantOlafr]

I used to be on here quite a bit under an old account. The site isn't what it was at one point, but there are still some really good posts on things happening and what people are doing with their daily lives. I've sort of come back to read about and participate in those things. Energy and oil issues aren't going away.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') recall that the sense of community was so strong here that some people actually wanted to join up and form intentional communities!

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') recall that the sense of community was so strong here that some people actually wanted to join up and form intentional communities!

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '
')
What happened is that doom and gloom was much closer in those days for many posters. Now, it's decades away. We all will be dead by that time, surely not worth it to put up with our differences on a daily basis. Gotta burn some oil while it lasts!

[Heineken]

Right now what we're facing more than environmental or energy-related collapse is FINANCIAL collapse. That's the immediate threat right now. It could be a catalyst of its own kind, Ibon.