[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'W')e ARE already a banana republic: we send dads to jail for nonpayment of child support when they can't find employment through no fault of their own.

[steam_cannon]

[quote="AgentR11"]The system is horrible, because the problem is horrible. No way to make it not horrible, it just is what it is. Of course there are ways to make it less horrible. But first it's important to define what the problem is. The main problem is the system has become lopsided. Men are assigned payments independent from their ability to pay. Women are assigned custody independent of their ability to provide for children.

In the US women get custody under all but the most extreme circumstances. Women on drugs get custody, women prostitutes get custody, women proven to have lied to judges faces in court get custody and women rarely go to jail for lying to judges. The few women who don't get custody and don't pay their child support also rarely go to jail. Women who do "share" custody rarely do so for more then five years. And women who ignore custody sharing orders also do not go to jail.

The distribution of domestic violence is almost equal among the sexes yet physical abuse of men, breaking bones slashing faces, rarely result in jail for women in the US. A woman slapping around her boyfriend makes people laugh. A women can walk up slash you in the face and she will probably get probation and have to pay limited compensation if you have witnesses and if you have a good lawyer.

But what about people who don't have twenty witnesses? With "primary aggressor laws" designed to cut down on dual arrests, they generally arrest men in an altercation. Which for many men has meant, if a man is hurt and calls the police in a domestic dispute he will be likely be arrested. No offense to anyone, but I've seen enough friends taken down by this system. To see it yourself, all you have to do is take some time and sit in on a family court or two or talk to a lawyer. It is what it is.

The United States has one of the most lopsided family court systems in the world. Do women deserve total protection from jail and 1950's style hand holding with the courts? I don't know, but personally I don't think they need any more hand holding then a man.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'W')e ARE already a banana republic: we send dads to jail for nonpayment of child support when they can't find employment through no fault of their own.

[AgentR11]

To all you whiny guys that can't stand to pay money to your ex's because you think the world is unfair.

Tough Tacos.
You knew the score before you laid down with the hottie.
If you didn't know the score, you were a moron fit to be removed from the reproductive population.

And despite the whining, you still don't address how to get money from the payor parent to the custodial parent, when the payor refuses to write the check, and systemic means such as garnishment aren't effective.

Unless you are into chopping kids in two; one parent in a divorce ends up with custody, and the other needs to be paying for their support.

That was the deal before anyone reading this message was born, and if you didn't understand it, you should have gotten neutered and saved us all the trouble of listening to your lamenting about the unfairness of the world.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'T')o all you whiny guys that can't stand to pay money to your ex's because you think the world is unfair.

Tough Tacos.
You knew the score before you laid down with the hottie.
If you didn't know the score, you were a moron fit to be removed from the reproductive population.

And despite the whining, you still don't address how to get money from the payor parent to the custodial parent, when the payor refuses to write the check, and systemic means such as garnishment aren't effective.

Unless you are into chopping kids in two; one parent in a divorce ends up with custody, and the other needs to be paying for their support.

That was the deal before anyone reading this message was born, and if you didn't understand it, you should have gotten neutered and saved us all the trouble of listening to your lamenting about the unfairness of the world.

[AgentR11]

Offering criminal or violent counter examples to why someone should be given a pass on child support is hardly what I would call convincing

Repulsive... probably.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'O')ffering criminal or violent counter examples to why someone should be given a pass on child support is hardly what I would call convincing

Repulsive... probably.

[AgentR11]

Its not simple at all since, all the ones that can pay and don't want to, but also have the means to hide money, find a way to say they can't, even when they most certainly can. Its amazing how quickly they can remember where they hid their money when it turns into their ticket out of jail.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I')ts not simple at all since, all the ones that can pay and don't want to, but also have the means to hide money, find a way to say they can't, even when they most certainly can. Its amazing how quickly they can remember where they hid their money when it turns into their ticket out of jail.

[Alan Cain]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') got to here:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', 'J')ose Illegal pays no taxes.

[evilgenius]

The story is ridiculous on its face. After, what is it $500, you can't get away with not declaring payments. You totally miss the fact that most Jose's in the US do pay taxes, to somebody else's Social Security account.They also largely overpay withholding and can't get tax refunds. Beyond that, why aren't we seeing that the central argument in this piece has nothing to do with Jose at all. Take him out of the picture and what do you see? That's right, your average American is underpaid! The 400 richest people in this country are worth more than the bottom half of all Americans combined.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'T')he story is ridiculous on its face. After, what is it $500, you can't get away with not declaring payments. You totally miss the fact that most Jose's in the US do pay taxes, to somebody else's Social Security account.They also largely overpay withholding and can't get tax refunds. Beyond that, why aren't we seeing that the central argument in this piece has nothing to do with Jose at all. Take him out of the picture and what do you see? That's right, your average American is underpaid! The 400 richest people in this country are worth more than the bottom half of all Americans combined.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'T')hat's probably because bottom half of all Americans have more debts than equity, as they think so highly of themselves that they cannot be bothered with things like " saving money" or " cooking" or " be reasonable with the size of their house". Hell, a homeless dude in India with 40 rupees in his pocket is richer than all bottom half of Americans combined. No need to invoke billionaires.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'T')he story is ridiculous on its face. After, what is it $500, you can't get away with not declaring payments. You totally miss the fact that most Jose's in the US do pay taxes, to somebody else's Social Security account.They also largely overpay withholding and can't get tax refunds. Beyond that, why aren't we seeing that the central argument in this piece has nothing to do with Jose at all. Take him out of the picture and what do you see? That's right, your average American is underpaid! The 400 richest people in this country are worth more than the bottom half of all Americans combined.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'T')he story is ridiculous on its face. After, what is it $500, you can't get away with not declaring payments. You totally miss the fact that most Jose's in the US do pay taxes, to somebody else's Social Security account.They also largely overpay withholding and can't get tax refunds. Beyond that, why aren't we seeing that the central argument in this piece has nothing to do with Jose at all. Take him out of the picture and what do you see? That's right, your average American is underpaid! The 400 richest people in this country are worth more than the bottom half of all Americans combined.

[prajeshbhat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'T')hat's probably because bottom half of all Americans have more debts than equity, as they think so highly of themselves that they cannot be bothered with things like " saving money" or " cooking" or " be reasonable with the size of their house". Hell, a homeless dude in India with 40 rupees in his pocket is richer than all bottom half of Americans combined. No need to invoke billionaires.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ') $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'T')he story is ridiculous on its face. After, what is it $500, you can't get away with not declaring payments. You totally miss the fact that most Jose's in the US do pay taxes, to somebody else's Social Security account.They also largely overpay withholding and can't get tax refunds. Beyond that, why aren't we seeing that the central argument in this piece has nothing to do with Jose at all. Take him out of the picture and what do you see? That's right, your average American is underpaid! The 400 richest people in this country are worth more than the bottom half of all Americans combined.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'T')he story is ridiculous on its face. After, what is it $500, you can't get away with not declaring payments. You totally miss the fact that most Jose's in the US do pay taxes, to somebody else's Social Security account.They also largely overpay withholding and can't get tax refunds. Beyond that, why aren't we seeing that the central argument in this piece has nothing to do with Jose at all. Take him out of the picture and what do you see? That's right, your average American is underpaid! The 400 richest people in this country are worth more than the bottom half of all Americans combined.

[PrestonSturges]

It's true the average debt ridden family has done their "patriotic duty" to pump up the economy much more effectively than a tax cut to the rich.

[evilgenius]

I like to make fun of the potato chip eating crowd as much as anybody, but I hope people understand much of that is tongue in cheek. I do blame those people who went out and got into debts that they couldn't pay off for this mess. I also blame those that lent them the money. I also blame the regulators who failed to rein in the excess. Beyond that there is a mass of psychological drama that supports one religion; capitalism, socialism, communism over another. The bottom line, however, is that economies don't actually struggle to reach equilibrium at any one point in time. They struggle to reach equilibrium over several points wildly meshed together and averaging to a point we would like to understand. Even that point can't really be said to be all that capable of being nailed down to a particular place in space and time. People react in the way they see fit within their own set of constraints, peculiar to them and maybe not so much to every other aspect of the economy as a whole. Within that context some people cheat, others struggle to get to a wider context, but most cooperate to survive. This whole Joe vs Jose thing is really the cheaters trying to discredit those that seek a wider context. If they fail there, then the next target is the school of fish that use cooperation to survive. A lot of what Pretorian says is probably true, insofar as the food supply for the school is now shrinking rather than growing like it once did. Perhaps I take umbrage at the suggestion that the intent behind the survival response of the school is suspect. That's my own particular visceral reaction. I will defend that intent, but I'm not going to say that Pretorian isn't right about some of this, given the sea change that has taken place economically. The climate has changed and the school has to learn to change with it. They don't have to start eating each other, though. Neither is it imperative that they listen to the cheaters, who would separate them from the school in order to feed on them.