[Fishman]

While Six may be correct in the brutality, immorality, etc of the unemployed need not apply, isn't this exactly what one would expect with peak oil? Costs are skyrocketing due to the cost of basis energy, so businesses pick and chose over the most productive workers. Some here posted in the past that peak oil would lead to some workers utopia, sorry, not going to happen. THIS is powering down, not exactly like my liberal friends thought when they came up with the powering down idea. And the discrepency between the rich and poor, may be true, may be false, doesn't matter. The pie is shrinking, so many will suffer. Riot, revolt, whatever, it won't matter a twit. If you were living on the government things will get much worse, even if you take all the money and hand it out to everyone, remember, the pie is shrinking. (Even off the government things will get worse, that's why some here have been working on preps) I didn't say I approve of it, just that this is the new world order.

[Cog]

@Fishman

Spot on analysis. Power-down is happening right now with all the attendant things that we aren't going to like very much.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'W')hile Six may be correct in the brutality, immorality, etc of the unemployed need not apply, isn't this exactly what one would expect with peak oil? Costs are skyrocketing due to the cost of basis energy, so businesses pick and chose over the most productive workers. Some here posted in the past that peak oil would lead to some workers utopia, sorry, not going to happen. THIS is powering down, not exactly like my liberal friends thought when they came up with the powering down idea. And the discrepency between the rich and poor, may be true, may be false, doesn't matter. The pie is shrinking, so many will suffer. Riot, revolt, whatever, it won't matter a twit. If you were living on the government things will get much worse, even if you take all the money and hand it out to everyone, remember, the pie is shrinking. (Even off the government things will get worse, that's why some here have been working on preps) I didn't say I approve of it, just that this is the new world order.

[Fishman]

"global social economy would either revert to some collective labour dictatorship or barbarism. "
But it seems that when a country goes to the collective labour dictatorship it collapses even quicker. Collectives generally only have a vision when an individual has a vision first.
So you think peak oil will lead to a "worker's dictatorship"? I don't think so. This is a financial ecology in flux, with a decline in energy coming into the system. "Worker's dictatorships" have not been know for their adaptability to change. At best, they provide stability when plenty of resources are available, or a brutal individual based dictatorship otherwise. Case in point USSR. Cuba adapted for a short time to dramatic change, but again, based on a individual based dictatorship, and now its trying to dump its "worker's dictatorship"

[Expatriot]

I know a bunch of people who have been laid off and/or been fired.
I know a bunch of people who are employed.

While not an absolute rule, it's definitely a very high correlation that those who were laid off/fired are slackers/unmotivated relative to the employed group.

Not hiring those who are long-term unemployed will miss the occasional good candidate, but certainly will result in a time savings by not wasting time reviewing all the dead wood that somebody else threw out.

That's life, and those who don't understand it are usually - part of the slacker group, people who have never run their own businesses or had any management responsibility, or/and idealistic collectivists.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', '&')quot;global social economy would either revert to some collective labour dictatorship or barbarism. "
But it seems that when a country goes to the collective labour dictatorship it collapses even quicker. Collectives generally only have a vision when an individual has a vision first.
So you think peak oil will lead to a "worker's dictatorship"? I don't think so. This is a financial ecology in flux, with a decline in energy coming into the system. "Worker's dictatorships" have not been know for their adaptability to change. At best, they provide stability when plenty of resources are available, or a brutal individual based dictatorship otherwise. Case in point USSR. Cuba adapted for a short time to dramatic change, but again, based on a individual based dictatorship, and now its trying to dump its "worker's dictatorship"

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'S')ome here posted in the past that peak oil would lead to some workers utopia, sorry, not going to happen. THIS is powering down, not exactly like my liberal friends thought when they came up with the powering down idea. And the discrepency between the rich and poor, may be true, may be false, doesn't matter. The pie is shrinking, so many will suffer.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')
We have a sociopathic economic aristocracy in the United States. Disengaging from globalist policies is the first thing we need to do to carve this cancer out, cut off the source of much of their wealth and stem the bleeding of jobs. The next step is to tax the rich, simple as that, tax the motherfucking fuck out of them. I'm talking about the top 5%, the owners of most of the wealth. Despite the inflated egos of many small businessmen, this does not include the great majority of small business owners, the real job creators in this country.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')We have a sociopathic economic aristocracy in the United States. Disengaging from globalist policies is the first thing we need to do to carve this cancer out, cut off the source of much of their wealth and stem the bleeding of jobs. The next step is to tax the rich, simple as that, tax the motherfucking fuck out of them. I'm talking about the top 5%, the owners of most of the wealth. Despite the inflated egos of many small businessmen, this does not include the great majority of small business owners, the real job creators in this country.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')

Finally!!! A liberal willing to actually risk making a proposal. Can you give a little more detail so we can crunch some numbers and see if we can come up with a realistic, mathematically sound, Liberal solution to situation we are in.

Here are some questions to get us started.............
Anything else? consumption taxes, tax reform, investments? Oh, one last question, can we continue on the present course?

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')

Finally!!! A liberal willing to actually risk making a proposal. Can you give a little more detail so we can crunch some numbers and see if we can come up with a realistic, mathematically sound, Liberal solution to situation we are in.

Here are some questions to get us started.............
Anything else? consumption taxes, tax reform, investments? Oh, one last question, can we continue on the present course?

[AgentR11]

As long as yall are talking about taxing income.. you are playing THEIR game, not yours.

PROPERTY
TRUSTS
ASSETS

Understand that to the lifestyle of the truly wealthy, $100 mil in a charitable trust contributes every bit as much to their lifestyle as does a bonus, dividend, or royalty check. You think you inconvenience them when you place rules on how distributions from said trusts must be made, but I tell you flat out, the level of their flexibility in cash flows greatly exceeds the breadth and width of any writable quantity of tax code regulation.

Tax it all.
Or admit defeat.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'A')s long as yall are talking about taxing income.. you are playing THEIR game, not yours.

PROPERTY
TRUSTS
ASSETS

Understand that to the lifestyle of the truly wealthy, $100 mil in a charitable trust contributes every bit as much to their lifestyle as does a bonus, dividend, or royalty check. You think you inconvenience them when you place rules on how distributions from said trusts must be made, but I tell you flat out, the level of their flexibility in cash flows greatly exceeds the breadth and width of any writable quantity of tax code regulation.

Tax it all.
Or admit defeat.

[AgentR11]

2% each and every year, on every piece of identifiable property within the bounds of the United States, if an identified asset has no identified payor who is up to date, repossess and auction fast, a few months at most. Don't look for the owners, look for the property. No declaration? Then obviously it needs to find a new owner that will declare it. Right down to the last $500 vehicle, 40 shares of stock, or gold necklace. NO exclusions, exemptions, or loopholes. You make even the smallest nick in the net, they'll swim trillions through it with the greatest of ease.

If you *must* insulate the poor; have them file a reverse income tax where they lists assets, taxes paid, and income, and cut them a check if they really are poor.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '2')% each and every year, on every piece of identifiable property within the bounds of the United States, if an identified asset has no identified payor who is up to date, repossess and auction fast, a few months at most. Don't look for the owners, look for the property. No declaration? Then obviously it needs to find a new owner that will declare it. Right down to the last $500 vehicle, 40 shares of stock, or gold necklace. NO exclusions, exemptions, or loopholes. You make even the smallest nick in the net, they'll swim trillions through it with the greatest of ease.

If you *must* insulate the poor; have them file a reverse income tax where they lists assets, taxes paid, and income, and cut them a check if they really are poor.

[careinke]

I wonder if I can find out what the US is worth?

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ho gets to decide what my 1991 cutlass is worth? How about the six broken keyboards in the back room? Who gets to look for the stuff? So I have to keep a record and update everything I own every year figure out depreciation etc? Sounds pretty hard for us uneducated math challenged people.

[careinke]

OK this guy says the US is worth 1.4 Quadrillion

http://dmarron.com/2010/01/04/whats-the-united-states-worth-1-4-quadrillion/

If this was correct 2% would end up being 28 TRILLION PER YEAR. Wow we could pay off the total debt fund the current budget and still have over ten trillion to do cool stuff with! Amazing in one fell swoop you solved EVERYTHING! Amazing.

What do you think Six, Pstar, Loki, POPs, AD, anybody?

I still don't like the idea of giving a list of everything I own to the government.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')

Finally!!! A liberal willing to actually risk making a proposal. Can you give a little more detail so we can crunch some numbers and see if we can come up with a realistic, mathematically sound, Liberal solution to situation we are in.

Here are some questions to get us started.............
Anything else? consumption taxes, tax reform, investments? Oh, one last question, can we continue on the present course?

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ho gets to decide what my 1991 cutlass is worth? How about the six broken keyboards in the back room? Who gets to look for the stuff? So I have to keep a record and update everything I own every year figure out depreciation etc? Sounds pretty hard for us uneducated math challenged people.