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Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 12 Aug 2011, 23:06:55

Not.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 12 Aug 2011, 23:26:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'N')ote the quantity of (and perhaps quality) of the available religious material that can be used to demonstrate that CC responses are not a set of heretical conspiracies aimed at reducing the influence or harming the harmony of religious communities?

Americans fundamentalists have been merging their religion with a conspiracy subculture for a couple of decades now.


Staying with the CC topic here... My point is that there is no reason that their conspiracy addiction has to guarantee support for the anti-agw team. Perfectly serviceable conspiracy theories can be cooked up to have them support action to prevent or moderate climate change, or at least to adjust our civilization to compensate for some of its lesser effects.

The rhetoric from the left is just so easily lead to making off the cuff statements that seem like nothing to them, but are like blazing trumpets of armageddon to the religious right.

I dunno, I was just struck by the way that exchange over Spencer was going; it didn't matter whether he was an idiot or not, or shill or not, what was important was that since he made a declaration of faith in the same sentence as he described his opinion on the science; that declaration of faith is considered sufficient evidence to discredit his position.

People here often ask why do lower middle class hourly workers vote Republican? DING DING DING... read above.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or example, the homeschooling movement is specifically a response to escape various anti-Christian "conspiracies." If you're unaware of that, then go do some reading on your own time.


If private school had not been available here, we would have homeschooled ours. Public HS is fine, but elementary and junior high? Not a chance in hxxx. Granted, being home schooled by a PhD toter is probably not the environment that you are thinking about. (lets not derail this CC thread over homeschooling though)
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 13 Aug 2011, 00:09:02

Did you see where Chris Christie is being accused of "treason" for refusing to endorse the Sharia Law Hysteria Industry? He told them to f&^% themselves, so now Christie is officially an agent of the caliphate.

This could be analyzed on many different levels, but I'm not that motivated at the moment.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby yeahbut » Sat 13 Aug 2011, 00:18:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I') think this is a good point in the conversation to bring up something for you lefties to consider when talking about how to persuade people about the real problems of global warming and climate change...

Note the quantity of (and perhaps quality) of the available religious material that can be used to demonstrate that CC responses are not a set of heretical conspiracies aimed at reducing the influence or harming the harmony of religious communities?


That doesn't sound like a very good way to maintain scientific credibility to me.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby americandream » Sat 13 Aug 2011, 00:31:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'D')id you see where Chris Christie is being accused of "treason" for refusing to endorse the Sharia Law Hysteria Industry? He told them to f&^% themselves, so now Christie is officially an agent of the caliphate.

This could be analyzed on many different levels, but I'm not that motivated at the moment.


Personally, Islam and capitalism can both go fork themselves. Islam played a pivotal role as capitalism's proxy in the '80's Afghan war with the socialist Afghani government. The sooner these two negate their presence on this planet, the better. As regards the poll, nothing is going to change whether the majority are fearful of GW or not. They are ignored at the booth, who is going to take notice of them at random polls.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sat 13 Aug 2011, 01:32:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'D')id you see where Chris Christie is being accused of "treason" for refusing to endorse the Sharia Law Hysteria Industry? He told them to f&^% themselves, so now Christie is officially an agent of the caliphate.


I'm not really following the debates and such, I'm in Texas, and I've resigned myself to our fate of getting no say what so ever on who will be the nominee. By the time the primaries get here, someone has already become "the anointed"...

I'll pay more attention and rabble rouse with the rest once we have a nominee.

That said, I don't get the paranoia over Sharia... if a Southern Baptist were to sit down and write out what he thought would be a good and just way to administer civil life, the similarities with Sharia would be amazing. Sharia gets lumped in with some really horrible, backward tribal practices, but you can color me unimpressed, idgits are idgits whether they are Sunni, Shia, Catholic or Southern Baptist. Idgit behavior does not get to define Canon Law, nor Sharia.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby Shar_Lamagne » Sat 13 Aug 2011, 08:42:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') dunno, I was just struck by the way that exchange over Spencer was going; it didn't matter whether he was an idiot or not, or shill or not, what was important was that since he made a declaration of faith in the same sentence as he described his opinion on the science; that declaration of faith is considered sufficient evidence to discredit his position.


It wasn't just a declaration of faith. It was a declaration about how God influences the climate, how God fundamentally created the biosphere to be self correcting around what is best for humans.

Total hogwash. But more important, a statement about the field he purports to be doing science in. That is what discredits him.

There are many Christians on here with critical thinking skills that understand the scientific method and follow the climate science.

God and science are only antithesis to funamentalists.

As for the Fox poll, It does not matter how many people do not believe in AGW. This generation seems to have the false assumption that the number of people that believe a proposition somehow affects the veracity of it.

What is true is true, even if 100% don't believe it.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sat 13 Aug 2011, 10:55:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shar_Lamagne', 'T')otal hogwash. But more important, a statement about the field he purports to be doing science in. That is what discredits him.


And thus, that is why you are able to drive away tens of millions of voters from your position. Voters who, in any sane political universe would be part of the agw+ team's core support.

An unbiased scientific perspective would conclude that the references concerning faith neither discredit, nor support the writer's claim; and then proceed to read the actual science published by the person and dispute or affirm their conclusions based upon the quality of that science. You guys have been set up royally, because you do not understand WHO you need to convince.

Spencer's guys understand it with supreme efficiency. They have tens of millions of fundamentalists and strongly practicing protestant lower, and lower middle class voters, supporting tax cuts for millionaires, privatization of SS and (continued) healthcare, subsidies for massive oil companies, and advocating drilling in currently off-limits zones.. And most critically for this conversation, absolutely opposed to any advancement of national mitigation or remediation efforts concerning climate change.

That doesn't strike you in the least bit odd? Something you might want to fix?

Do you think calling them "dumb" is convincing?
Do you think suggesting that someone framing an opening sentence to give glory to God is instantly discredited helps or harms your case?

Let me put this plainly; the world will be a burned out shell long before the papers inScience or Nature or the International Journal of Climatology have any influence on enacted US Policy. Is that the way you want things to be, standing in the wilderness as the world burns, screaming the truth, unable to convince even the tiniest percentage of the people you need to convince?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for the Fox poll, It does not matter how many people do not believe in AGW. This generation seems to have the false assumption that the number of people that believe a proposition somehow affects the veracity of it.


It drastically effects whether anything is DONE about it. The belief has more impact on enacted policy than any truth concerning the issue itself ever will.

Basically, yall have been baited into a debate pattern which guarantees that the non-vested, uncommitted observers will reject your argument, regardless of their underlying scientific validity. If that's the way you wish it to be... The Republicans will happily accept the millions of votes you send their way.

Reminds me of outfielders playing catch with each other, while a runner leisurely jogs his way around the bases for an infield home run.
Can't help but sigh at the folly, but won't refuse to accept the gifted run either!
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 09:38:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'N')ew Rasmussen Poll - Algore Pissed

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor ... -meltdown/


Worthless. The best thing to do is to look at what scientists say about the matter.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 11:37:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'W')orthless. The best thing to do is to look at what scientists say about the matter.


While peeker01 is in fact a denier; this thread is useful if you'll give the matter some thought. Its not a question of whether global warming is true or not, its a question of why do so many Americans reject it out of hand despite "knowing what scientists say". My assertion is that those in a position to push the denial myth know exactly who they need to convince, and they know how to set up their opponents in such a way as to make their job of denial pushing simple.

Some would suggest that Americans are anti-science in general; but I'm fairly certain that is not true. What is true is that they do not give scientists the initial assumption of trust, and then when folks come along and, for example, discredit Spencer not based upon errors in math or method, but on sociological grounds as a result of an opening declaration giving glory to God, you seal the deal in your typical American's mind. Unlike in SF, a large majority of Americans are quite religious, and quite Christian, and read any statement praising God as an honorable, decent, and good thing; thus anyone that would complain about such a statement is instantly put in the "very untrustworthy" category. Such is an untenable position when you need to convince a majority of the voters about a result whose math greatly exceeds the abilities of almost all of them.

Its like the energized proponents of agw+ response would much rather dis God and faith, than convince those they need to convince.

Because right now, they have clearly, and utterly failed. It may even be failure past the point of no return.

AGW folks will clear their conscience with statements about how its the deniers fault, because of the fabrications and doubt mongering, but in the end CO2 will keep rising, MH4 will spike, and 7-8 billion people will wonder why they can only grow enough grain to feed 2 billion.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 14:28:03

Shar already answered that question.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shar_Lamagne', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') dunno, I was just struck by the way that exchange over Spencer was going; it didn't matter whether he was an idiot or not, or shill or not, what was important was that since he made a declaration of faith in the same sentence as he described his opinion on the science; that declaration of faith is considered sufficient evidence to discredit his position.


It wasn't just a declaration of faith. It was a declaration about how God influences the climate, how God fundamentally created the biosphere to be self correcting around what is best for humans.

Total hogwash. But more important, a statement about the field he purports to be doing science in. That is what discredits him.

There are many Christians on here with critical thinking skills that understand the scientific method and follow the climate science.

God and science are only antithesis to funamentalists.


As for your assertion of a need to convince people, we do not. It is too late.

There is nothing that can be done now. The Earth is now providing it's own positive feedbacks to the warming. We could cut all emissions tomorrow and it wouldn't stop the runaway positive feedbacks occuring naturally.

Once the methane began releasing it was game over. It will continue until all the terrestrial methane trapped in permafrost and all the methane on the ESAS has been released.

By that time, Earth will be uninhabitable for humans due to peak heat stresses except at the poles, if that.

No need to convince at all. Most alive today will see it happen before their eyes. Are seeing it now, though many refuse to recognize it.

Finally the truth will be in the puddingheads. And they will die knowing just how wrong they were.

You want something for your Right-Wing Christians to ponder, here you go.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')saiah 24:4-6

The earth mourns and withers; the world languishes and withers; the highest people of the earth languish. The earth lies defiled under its inhabitants; for they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are scorched, and few men are left.

Revelations 16:9

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.


Maybe the words of their own God can convince them.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Sun 14 Aug 2011, 14:46:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 14:45:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'M')aybe the word of their own God can convince them.


And it might have 20 years ago, if it weren't for the hostility towards people of faith displayed by those who were trying to do the convincing...

You are right though, its much too late now.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby peeker01 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 14:50:03

Agent, people are not rejecting AGW for no reason. This is the google age. In 30 minutes,
the average citizen can find all the important facts in any controversy. If you spend 5 minutes
per day on the computer, you can reach graduate level competence in a month.

Most people know that carbon trading has failed, ocean temperatures are stable or falling,
satellite temperatures show no warming. Climategate was a huge black eye for AGW promoters
and scientists in general, even if it was over-reported. The polar bear scientist was defrocked,
and there has not been a real hurricane since Katrina. More importantly, the entire western us
has been cold since May, and winters nationwide have been frightful in the recent past.

People are not stupid. Most everybody has seen pictures of the Ozone Hole, and can see it hasn't
shrunk in any way, inspite of 50 billion dollars spent on CFC conversion.

Most of all, people realize the is no MONEY for another ozone hole style debacle. No Bucks,
No Buck Rogers!


.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 14:59:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd it might have 20 years ago, if it weren't for the hostility towards people of faith displayed by those who were trying to do the convincing...


If you were being prevented from saving the planet by a bunch of Puddingheads. If you understood the science and saw the writing on the wall.

If you knew we would be where we are now and where we will be in the next 10 years and were blocked from taking action to prevent it.

If you were even faced with a disinformation campaign funded by the fossil fuel industry to undermine the truth at evey step.

Until it was finally too late and everything you have ever known; art, music, literature, the great creations of civilization and the finest expressions of man, would soon be gone along with any decendants you might have.

Wouldn't YOU feel a little hostile?
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby peeker01 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 15:11:58

Yammer, why do you link "deniers" so closely with christians? Do you suppose there are no
agnostic, atheist, or Muslim deniers? I know Spencer's faith irritates believers, but surely
there is a good commie scientist out there you might listen to. What is the faith of Ozone
Hole promoters? Never heard that to be an issue.

Seems to me, squabbling over each other's faith, or lack of faith, is signaling the death throes
of a failing scientific principle.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 15:17:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd it might have 20 years ago, if it weren't for the hostility towards people of faith displayed by those who were trying to do the convincing...

Until it was finally too late and everything you have ever known; art, music, literature, the great creations of civilization and the finest expressions of man, would soon be gone along with any decendants you might have.
Wouldn't YOU feel a little hostile?


What good is such a feeling if it works as a disservice and impediment to what you needed to accomplish? Hostility now is a bit more understandable, as we watch the disaster unfold, we all tend to rail against that which we think could have done something. I probably do it myself, overreacting to those on the left who could have accepted some advancement of right wing issues to achieve an overall reduction in emissions of CO2. Those on the left reasonably express their anger towards the people, corporations, and governments that worked to muddle up the issue so badly that non-scientists just lump the whole thing together as a giant pissing match between vested interests.

As to gone, I think we should always try to slip through the bottleneck, or at least improve the odds of our progeny to successfully slip through; though as your rightly bring up; passive heat dissipation which we all live our lives taking for granted could very well be a deal breaker in the end. Funny, sick, and sad that we may end up living on Earth in the way that science fiction always assumed we'd live on Mars or the moon; constantly in need of maintaining an artificial environment to retreat too when stresses are too high. Wonder how long humans could pull it off....
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby Lore » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 15:21:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'M')aybe the word of their own God can convince them.


And it might have 20 years ago, if it weren't for the hostility towards people of faith displayed by those who were trying to do the convincing...

You are right though, its much too late now.


Less to do with faith and more to do with a decline in scientific literacy and critical thinking and the overall inability of citizens to make well-informed decisions.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 15:23:50

Agreed.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 15:29:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'M')ost people know that carbon trading has failed...

Carbon trading can't be said to have failed, since its never been tried in a way that could have any impact.

Course, carbon trading is my favorite wedge to tell the climate serious folks from the lefty serious folks who are tag alongs and opportunists.

PROPOSAL:
Repeal income and estate taxes.
Institute a carbon tax and trading system that completely replaces the total revenue generated by income and estate taxes.
Watch liberals have a coronary as their precious burden sharing chart gets horribly gored by the groups that really go through carbon.

PROPOSAL:
Remove all defense spending from the income tax supported budget.
Rename Dept of Defense back to War Department.
Replace existing road fuel tax, with war tax on road fuel and heating oil, and set its level to generate sufficient funds to pay for our warfare activities.
Watch liberals scream bloody murder as their precious constituency gets reamed by their consumption.

No, there are a lot of right wing solutions to this mess, but it was never about stopping the disaster, its always been about increasing the power and revenue of the central government and thus furthering the left's policy objectives.
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Re: Rasmussen Poll On Global Warming

Unread postby Shar_Lamagne » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 16:24:46

Around the world, the right-wing, whether they call themselves Conservatives or Republicans or Christian Democrats, have always been on the side of big industry, especially oil and gas.

It has been right-wing legislation that has deregulated them, or weakened regulations when they coundn't deregulate, and allowed them to kill the planet.

To suggest you are now the solution is absurd. You are to blame.

There are no right-wing solutions, because there are no solutions. You have killed the biosphere. It is dying as we speak. It is over but for the misery, suffering and dying.

It is the fault of the right-wing, the fault of the industrialists, and you shall have garrnered undying hatred once people realize.

I can't forgive you or any who have fought on the side of those that killed the planet. Especially when you are still decrying the left, and not recognizing your guilt in all of this.

You did this. You and the rest on the right. As I understand you in the US are still trying to repeal the Clean Air Act and abolish the EPA.

Abhor is not a strong enough word for what I feel.

You don't like the hostility? Well get used to it, because it will only get worse.
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