[Ferretlover]

Not the Nazis again... sigh....
There's always a window. The point is: THIS IS IT. The you-know-what-storm may not be in full force in a week or a month or a year or a decade, or more.
But, unless you prepare for it, and prepare your children and significant others, as fast as they can absorb the lessons, your lines "ain't gonna make it."
It takes way too much time for humans to learn to accept things--hence, the societal lockstep to get people to do what the government (any government) wants.
"What if" is a fun game. But, it's not reality. It's just a time waster. And, no-one can buy more time.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'Y')all ask about why life has to be "so hard" in the US. Simple. It doesn't, and isn't.. UNLESS.

You've ever played keeping up with the Jones'.

If you played that game at some point over the last two decades; well, now you get to pay up. So it's gonna suck for a while.

I never played.
Life in the US is easy peasy.

[AgentR11]

I've called it in that thread as well, this is a Depression, plane and simple. They blew a little positive growth bump in the middle by pumping a bunch of freshly printed cash, but its really just the same cycle. It takes quite a while to come out of one, in addition, there is a currency valuation adjustment going on that's been building for a while. I see no reason why this won't play out the same as Japan's RE bubble pop, we'll go through a zero growth decade as things unwind and normalize. Their's was much more outrageous than ours, but ours had Lehman in the mix to intensify the initial impact.

In the end, you look at the unemployment numbers and see a bad thing; but if you look at pct of the population that is holding jobs now, all that has happened is that the numbers are back to where they should be. Now home valuations have to fall further to come back into line with historical norms; untenable mortgages have to default and be unwrapped, foreclosed, auctioned, price discovery has to occur again. This reset is not a bad thing, I have long felt America is best where one full time wage earner supports the financial needs of 3-7 people living in a modest home, together, as a family. This BS of everyone in the family working ridiculous jobs for money to buy a ridiculous house which only enslaves them to more time in service for money, instead of service for love, just must end.

And it is ending; It just takes time. But its not the end either, at least not the end on a national scene. (AGW... well, different kettle, no?)

Now, this isn't to say Australia and Canada aren't in great shape to grow over the next few decades; they certainly are; but to suggest the US is somehow falling back to truly hard living, is just nonsense. Some people, that should never have held jobs, got them for a brief bubbly period; silliness ensued, burger flippers played RE speculator, and bankers played roulette by rolling them all up, and saying lettem ride.

As far as the Tea Party, and the dreaded bus; I know the press is going on, and on, and on; and its a great drama. Like I tell Pops. Let me know when the food stamp cards stop working. Results, not babble. So far, no bus, just fruit loops.

[SeaGypsy]

Australia depends on continued growth in Asia. All of which still hinges on oil.
Some people are suggesting we will get on the CTL GTL/ fracking bandwagon and thereby override energy concerns.
We have to have someone wanting to buy our stuff, and it has to be worth more than it costs to get it out of the ground.
A good part of the current gold price is in getting the stuff out of the rock it is usually embedded in at a rate of 20 to 50 grams per million.
Coking coal, ideal for CTL is also key in Chinese steel smelting, most of the ore for which Australia supplies with the said coal.

In short there are still many vulnerabilities to Australia's future, the USA has far more agrible land at affordable prices.

[JohnRM]

As a somewhat single man with his roots in the US of A, I am staying put, regardless. If and when I become a Father, I will go wherever my children have the best chance at a full and happy life.

[Shaved Monkey]

I think the future problems will come not from having enough money,stuff or a job the problem will come from coming in contact with people who cant cope with not having enough money,stuff or a job.
Just comparing the residents and governments response to Cyclone Katrina and to the Floods in Queensland.
In the US there are very poor angry people who will never crawl out of the poverty and they know it,they go into this is my only chance to get what I cant have mode.

Stronger unions,high minimum wages, a "socialist" health care system,a "socialist" unemployment benefits scheme ,a "socialist" aged pension scheme,narrow the gap in Australia, Canada and most of Western Europe of the rich and the poor.
So when the lights go out in a US city the looting and shooting begins,if the lights go out in a quasi-socialist country people go to bed and the birth rate goes up in 9 months time.

If I was an American I would head north to your closest quasi socialist neighbour with similar accent and try and fit in.
Marry a Canadian and you might qualify for some of the benefits.(if the governments exist to hand them out)
Sounds like the Canadian version of Tea Party might be in power up there though
even Australia has been heading to the right at a rapid rate for the last 15 or so years.
................................................................
.........did they give Canadian citizenship to the Vietnam Vets and draft dodgers who went there during/after the war????
.................................................................

Saw a doco a few years back on the US during the Great there was a real fear of unemployed people listening to Arlo Guthrie and turning to communism , so they got them digging swales in mid west farm land and planting trees
Once the war started, business picked up and it was back to normal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_C ... tion_Corps


....a new CCC would be a great thing to reintroduce if TSHTF
It could be a great thing for all countries.

[Serial_Worrier]

When TSHTF the first thing that is going to happen is New Zealand, Australia, Europe close their doors to Americans. Also what makes you think American authorities are going to let you leave? Keep believing you live in a free country.

[SeaGypsy]

You think they lay out the welcome mat now?
Have a look at what it takes to get a work visa to these places now already.

1/ Employability, qualifications and experience, usually a job offer from a sponsoring employer (not easy when you're not here for the interview)

2/ $ enough to look after yourself for at least 2 years, up to 7 years if on an 'investment' visa'.

They want criminal history, health history, work history, family arrangements.

If you are able to satisfy the conditions, chances are you don't need to emigrate. The typical American migrant to Australia is a left of centre doctor with a couple mil in the bank. They don't move here out of desperation. Australia doesn't recognise economic refugees, I don't think the others you mentioned do either; so unless the US beomes like Somalia you can forget refugee visas. Besides that I don't see the rules changing any time soon.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I')f you are able to satisfy the conditions, chances are you don't need to emigrate. The typical American migrant to Australia is a left of centre doctor with a couple mil in the bank. They don't move here out of desperation. Australia doesn't recognise economic refugees, I don't think the others you mentioned do either; so unless the US beomes like Somalia you can forget refugee visas. Besides that I don't see the rules changing any time soon.

[Pretorian]

If something like that happens, and there will be no USA to cry a river to, AU/NZ will be overrun by Indonesia and/or China. No question about it and yes, they have more than enough people to brush all those pink warriors off like a pesky fly.

[SeaGypsy]

You just made it real obvious you haven't been here and you know nothing about Australians. There doesn't need to be a military invasion, there is already a legal one.

Australia has fantastic natural defenses. It also has some extremely well trained units of defense in the areas prone to mass landings. Anyone thinking it will be easy to take over northern and central Australia has never been there and has no knowlege of it.

The way it's going we will have an Asian leader through our current system within 15 years.

[Sixstrings]

Australia isn't going to be invaded.

What's likely is that China will put the pressure on.. control their politics. If given a choice, Aussies are better off with American investors owning their resources. American capitalists just want to make money and don't want taxes, the Chinese though that's state capitalism with a nationalist bent.

[Pretorian]

Hello? The title of the thread starts " If things get crazy in US". How can you assume BAU anywhere will be BAU after that. Well, may be in Somalia or Darfur, surely not in AU. As for the pink warriors in Australia-- they won't have enough ammo.

[Pretorian]

As for a legal invasion-- they do have your resources but they keep your populace fat and happy in exchange. That is not going to fly for a long time.

[AgentR11]

If a foreign national power purchases a problematic level of assets within a country, the answer becomes simple.

PROPERTY TAX

Personally, I think the problem of foreign ownership is vastly overstated.

[SeaGypsy]

I was talking about legal immigration/ virtual invasion.

[Newfie]

Canada. Lucky enough to be a dualie and have land and family there.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ') I saw an article yesterday about 5,000 people stampeding for just 100 public housing apartments in Dallas. These people have nowhere to go but the street, yet it's illegal to sleep in the street. What are they supposed to do, Ibon?

I would say have more patience for the "whining" American underclass. They're in a bad spot, they're living in a country that's designed for wealthy folk.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'S')o the stark truth is that neither the political nor the economic realities will lift the underclass anytime soon which really leaves no choice but to start the painful process of recognition that the pathway out of this will have to be generated from resourcefulness from within this new socio economic reality.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')ake a look at that pick. That's what your Liberterian and "resourceful poor" fantasyland looks like. That's what de-regulation looks like. South America is an interesting place Ibon, I'd just prefer it stay there. On the numbers, there's no good reason the American people can't live as well as Europeans.