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Flash mob robberies

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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby GoIllini » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 17:08:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'B')ack to Flash mob robberies. Ferfal's blog has good ideas on how to deal with them if caughtup. Most interesting was never go to ground, if you go down you get kicked. Unfortunately Ferfal didn't have recommendations for the shop owners.

Pepper spray deployment system.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Fishman » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 17:16:13

Yep, thats what I was thinking also. See my first post here, "Large cannisters of pepper spray should slow down at least some of the criminals." But this has consequences also, see the post. Sting operation by the police perhaps, tweet a sit, have the kids show up, then arrest, or would that be entrapment? Sorry if these ideas would be perceived as helping the "Elite" or "attacking the poor".
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby AgentR11 » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 17:46:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'T')hey have every right to say that the US is never spending another dollar, sure. They do not have the authority to push us into default, though, and that's the difference.


Actually... they kinda do have that authority. Its just a really bad thing to do. But...when faced with two catastrophically bad possibilities, I'm all for stripping the feds of as much power as possible in the process.

The legal question that really makes me wonder is cash priority for the treasury dept cutting the checks. If they have 500, and bills for 800, who gets the 500. One could make a case of seeing which appropriations was passed most recently as the determining factor; and there is also the delegation of authority on printing the currency; would that then force the printing of 300 to pay out the remaining appropriated 800-500..

The thing that gives it the most bite is also related, in that the last bill that authorized increasing the debt limit will supersede legislation passed before it; preventing the "such funds are as necessary" language of prior law from overriding the limit.

It'd be an interesting event to watch to see real priorities, would the treasury fight to cut checks to bond holders, or would they fight to cut checks to seniors. Ouchy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think we're going back to 12-figure budget deficits instead of 13-figure budget deficits.


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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby GoIllini » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 18:14:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'Y')ep, thats what I was thinking also. See my first post here, "Large cannisters of pepper spray should slow down at least some of the criminals." But this has consequences also, see the post. Sting operation by the police perhaps, tweet a sit, have the kids show up, then arrest, or would that be entrapment? Sorry if these ideas would be perceived as helping the "Elite" or "attacking the poor".

Not sure where we draw the line on elite; I think this advice just helps folks who consume less than the economy claims they produce. Bear in mind that the richest folks in this country own real estate and intellectual property. It's the 98th-70th percentiles- probably the folks next door if you live in a suburb- that largely own the big corporations.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')But then of course the cockroach lawyers will sue the shop owners, nutjobs will whine about the poor youth dealing with the pepper spray, and it looks like the Chicago chief of police will call you a racist if you actually try to defend your property

Honestly, I think we need to put up a big sign saying that if the siren sounds, you have 30 seconds to get out of the store before the pepper spray is released. Given that this falls under interstate commerce, Congress can pass a law indemnifying storeowners from pepper spray suits if they follow a protocol for deploying it.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 29 Jun 2011, 20:09:54

Well there's just not that much demand for capital since that inflation is for commodities and foreign oil, not building stuff.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Thu 30 Jun 2011, 02:01:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I')t's another topic, but the Vancouver riot strikes me as an anarchist type thing. Because otherwise those people have no good reason to riot -- compared to the rest of the world they're pampered and spoiled, and obviously self-entitled to the point where they no longer recognize the rights of others. You can just tell that crowd has ZERO respect for police and firefighters.

"self-entitled" is exactly the right word. My wife calls it "facism".
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 30 Jun 2011, 02:10:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'O')ff topic, but the 14th Amendment says:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

So there's nothing in the Constitution that says Congress even gets to set a debt limit.


It would be up to the Supreme Court to rule on what this clause means and doesn't mean. Clearly though it had everything to do with the Civil War, the main aim being forbidding Southern states from honoring old Confederate debts or paying out any reparations to former slaveholders.

Trying to suggest this constitutional amendment forces us into a trap OF ETERNAL NEVERENDING DEBT is a bit of a stretch, Preston. If you really think that's what they meant then you're not being honest -- the men who wrote those words would be appalled at the New World Order bankster globalist mess we've gotten mixed up in.

But let's go ahead and take the amendment at face value for what it says.. that is the "validity of the public debt of the United States ... shall not be questioned."

That's all it says Preston, the validity cannot be questioned. That DOES NOT MEAN we have to pay the bond when it's due. Default doesn't have to mean invalidation of bonds -- we could pay the old ones off, when we can afford to. Restructure it. Might take two hundred years, but eventually they'll get their money -- the bonds would not be invalid, simply payment delayed CUZ SORRY WE'RE BROKE RIGHT NOW.

EDIT: on second thought I'm not advocating that bondholders get shafted. The whole issue is over NEW debt. IMHO we should raise taxes if we must, to pay current bondholders. Some *reasonable* restructuring might be necessary, since we are BROKE and shouldn't be taking more debt to pay old. But timeframe shouldn't be two hundred years obviously, rather some workable restructure.

Ultimately US bondholders get screwed anyway because the government has been devaluing the dollar for many decades. Even if the debt ceiling is raised in perpetuity like you want Preston, bondholders still get shafted because it will all end in hyperinflation.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby TITAN » Fri 01 Jul 2011, 16:02:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '.')..OK, Fish, that'll be your job, to keep a close eye on those Jews, their plans for class warfare, and their puppets, the negroes.

I have to throw in a gratuitous insult just so people know I'm not agreeing with you. God you are a stupid mutant. Nothing personal.

I wonder if people like him seriously believe that the Elite they vigourously defend care about them at all. They don't care about you; they don't know you exist; you are nothing to them; yet you defend them and attack the poor anychance you get.


of course!

if you strive really hard for your entire life maybe just maybe, one of those elites will look in your direction and nod. that is the 'conservative' republican dream.

any american that makes under a million or so a year, and votes republican, is a 100% idiot.

'oh, but they have the same values as me!'... that's what you always hear from these gun toting, trailer trash morons. they actually believe the right wing politicians that say they hate abortion and go to church.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby seahorse3 » Fri 01 Jul 2011, 16:45:04

Somehow, the poor always do what the elite say, even though they have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Look at the US Civil War, where hundreds of thousands of poor southern boys who couldn't afford a slave died fighting to save the institution of slavery. How many Germans died for Hitler? Poor idiots dying for the rich is nothing new. Do not be shocked.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 01 Jul 2011, 16:51:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TITAN', ''')oh, but they have the same values as me!'... that's what you always here from these gun toting, trailer trash morons. they actually believe the right wing politicians that say they hate abortion and go to church.


I suspect you're right about the morons, but its also true on the left as well. Why should a trailer trash person care what the politicians think? No government action can change their economic situation, but it can make them into a felon by passing gun control laws, or give them a sense of safety and participation by passing CCW legislation. Government can act in a way that makes it near impossible for trailer trash to hunt; or it can go out of its way to make the opportunities available and accessible.

There's a lot more to these non-pocketbook issues than you might wish to believe; that your own social issues align well with the party that takes your economic side in matters may make it easy for you to discount their importance. But I assure you, a devout, Catholic, poor, latino woman in the voting booth is spitting nails over the conflict presented to her on the ballot; just as a wealthy, free market, gay man might be. They aren't trivial or inconsequential at all.

Taking the role of a pickup truck driving, gun toting, trailer trash for instance; I'm aware that there is a "safety net" just beneath me that prevents starvation, and that the left is its chief advocate; but I also know the left despises the fact that I own a revolver, or like to shoot animals and eat them. I look at those and note, the left can't do piddle to take the safety net away, but they sure as heck can and would name me a felon for what I own, given the chance. Otoh, the right is too weak knee'd to take away the safety net, even if they were given the chance; but they like shoot'in cra.. just like me, and have gone out of their way to make it easier to hunt and carry too. The left... they hate my smokey ole pickup, and are doing everything they can to make it impossible for me to drive it, the right... they throw a fit any time anyone sneezes in the direction of my pickup (though for odd reasons.).

Its not hard to see why our trailer trash guy has so little interest in supporting the Democrats despite what the Democrats say concerning economic justice. Its also not hard to see why our trailer trash guy supports Republicans so easily. Past that, its just buyer-justification arguments going on. The wealthy make odd comments about freedom, 2nd amendment, church, gays, etc; the trailer trash guy complains that taxes are too high. Same on the left; rich, gay guy who's social-heavy on issues, convinces himself that higher taxes are just and noble, and the straight poor guy convinces himself that he cares that gays get fair treatment in the public square.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Fri 01 Jul 2011, 17:45:18

You know...we may have went off-topic a bit, but I think the last few posts touched on a central fact that no one wants to really acknowledge. Why do people do the bidding of the elite? Text deleted. This is exactly why we can't get anything done here, becuase we're so damn divided.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 04 Jul 2011, 21:44:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 01 Jul 2011, 18:15:36

If the left would stop trying to take stuff away from the poor that the poor want to keep, maybe they could end the division and win big.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Pretorian » Fri 01 Jul 2011, 23:53:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TITAN', '
')any american that makes under a million or so a year, and votes republican, is a 100% idiot.


What about those who make under a million and vote democrat? Who are they? Delusional idiots?
By the way there are plenty of right wing politicians that do hate abortion and visit church at least sometimes. But you will never find a Democrat who would choose to go live in a black ghetto, even if he is black himself.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sat 02 Jul 2011, 00:31:11

You know, sometimes... apparent shared traits in a group are coincidental, not causal.

Groups of socially connect youths, with nothing to do, and not much in the way of hopeful prospects... usually turns out badly.

I'll always remember Rev Jackson giving speaking on crime, and mentioned, if he saw three black male teens walking the sidewalk towards his car, he'd lock the door... (pause) and he'd do the same if they were three white male teens. Its just common sense. Nowdays, where it was once easy to assemble three, now its easy to assemble fifty.

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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 02 Jul 2011, 02:12:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', 'Y')ou know...we may have went off-topic a bit, but I think the last few posts touched on a central fact that no one wants to really acknowledge. Why do people do the bidding of the elite? Text deleted This is exactly why we can't get anything done here, becuase we're so damn divided.

Absolutely, the people who are the most dead set against health care reform are the white people that do not have health insurance and who have the lowest life expectancy. They are perfectly willing to see members of their own family die from treatable diseases rather than see one of "them" get something.

It's the Khmer Rogue/Taliban model - nobody should have a school, nobody should be vaccinated, nobody should have clean water, nobody should have electricity.

Make no mistake that madness can infect a whole culture. People would rather see their own child die from cholera than see one of "them" get a drink of clean water, and then they'll blame "them."
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Fishman » Sat 02 Jul 2011, 07:45:46

Six, I mostly agree with your post. This issue of flash mobs is perceived as racial, but its cultural. There will be large groups of whites doing the same soon enough. The common thread will be sons of single mothers. Even Soros backed NPR had a piece about terrorist recently, one of the biggest common denominators, sons of single mothers.
One disagreement however, Japan's aged population is due to a decreased birthrate, and a shift in demographics. Immigration may be a solution, but its not the cause.

Preston, as usual your knowledge of healthcare, or any subject for that matter, is abysmal. For perhaps .1% of the folks involved your statement is true. In simplicity healthcare is based on costs, access, and quality/technology. If we want access for all, but have no money as a country, we will have to dramatically cut quality/technology. My suggestion would be to take a basic economics course first, perhaps read the book Freakanomics. Your poor white hating posts are as bad as black hating posts, just a different flavor of racism
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 03 Jul 2011, 01:04:51

This thread needs to be sent to the glue factory.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 03 Jul 2011, 07:43:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'F')irst of all, there is no need to edit my posts to this degree. I said "" Don't know about Asia though, I wouldn't be surprised if people without a race aren't considered to be human at all."""


Didn't mean to put words in your mouth, just bouncing thoughts off your post.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')econd, Sixstrings are you aware that you are closely related to rats and mice, among many other things?


Well that's a good point. But genetic diversity still matters. It's what determines whether a species survives if it becomes stressed. Take plague outbreak for example.. everybody could be wiped out except for 10% who by random genetic chance happen to be immune. The more genetic variation there is, the greater chance some will survive an extinction event.

As for Africa.. I saw a Nat Geo show about this, I need to find an article on it. What I'm not clear on is WHY there's less genetic diversity the farther from Africa you get.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')arasitism, Sixstrings, is a parasitism, nothing more and nothing less, be it human or any other mammal or animal.


I would argue there's an awful lot of parasitism going on from hedge funders and speculators and banksters living high on the hog in the Hamptons. How are they less of a parasite than a man of color who can't find work? The flash mobbers are stealing potato chips, the banksters are taking trillions.

You're picking and choosing your parasites, Pretorian.
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 03 Jul 2011, 09:28:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for Africa.. I saw a Nat Geo show about this, I need to find an article on it. What I'm not clear on is WHY there's less genetic diversity the farther from Africa you get.


bc 'they' are looking mainly in Africa? lsol
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Re: Flash mob robberies

Unread postby Ferretlover » Mon 04 Jul 2011, 22:05:15

Off topic and other problem posts have been split away. Please stay focused and on topic.
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