[Kingcoal]

linlithgowoil and ONASIS, you guys need to get out more. Florida is one State in 50 and is very different than say, Maine. Just look at the demographics for the USA and compare it to your own countries.

[ONASIS]

'Can you Talk the Talk + Walk the Walk'

Guys I'm guilty of 'stereotyping' - it's true that both the US + Europe have populations that couldn't spend a day camping in the park !

Since Post WWII both our cultures have all become 'risk averse' and politically correct - our people's are just not used to hardship anymore -

Even our poorest members have a radio, tv, running water, etc. but I guess the developed 'OECD' countries look like paradise when compared to the conditions of the other 5 billion who inhabit the developing nations ??

Don't know, I've been to Africa where there is little money but the people seem to be preoccupied with only the basics like a little food + sex - give them that and they are quite happy !!

In Europe people have hassles about bills + buying the latest fashions, technology, cars, houses, family expenses, etc - with the advent of PO the European + America will have to go back to basic living maybe like the 1930's - bigger community spirit, etc.

Anyway, good luck to you all if + when PO comes - but maybe its better to have some land set aside for that rainy day if you are an urban dweller ??

I guess that by being on this forum at least we share some common thoughts on PO + how it can change our world, at least we are thinking 'outside the box' -

Best wishes / ONASIS -

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

"The US still has wild open spaces in many parts of the country. Europe on the other hand has been closed in, stifled. With no outlet, many Europeans escape in to drug use, extreme pornography or virtual realities while their countries are silently and incrementally islamicized by a constant influx of immigrants hostile to their way of life"


I don't know about the "exteme" porno, but you're right about everything else. Europe will not fair better.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', ' ')With no outlet, many Europeans escape in to drug use, extreme pornography or virtual realities

[jaakkeli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '
')There's nothing Americans blah blah blah

[vegasmade]

"Don't panick over there"
Where is there? Aren't we all in this together?
Last week I saw a lecture for a book titled The Earth is Flat. It was basically a live commercial. The book was about how tech has leveled the global playing field. (outsourcing and the like) The author, a NY Times columnist, spent an hour giving the highlights. At one point he even said it's all unsustainable. Maybe he'll elaborate in his next book.
When you consider the relative closeness of all nationalities (there's at least few on this thread), "over there" means as far as your eyes can currently see.
America may be the most unsustainable country, but America's leaders view nukes as tools of statecraft. They won't be taken down without dragging everyone else with them. So get with the program folks- this isn't a limited problem. Everyone will suffer. Any modern country got there on the oil train. Every major city is densely populated to the point of unsustainability. How many people live in Paris? London? Helsinki?
And if you think culture and history will help, I need some of the shit you're smoking. The farming culture is being abandoned globally. The young are leaving for the cities. Can Greek onions and olives sustain a few hundred million Europeans? Will all the Monets, Rembrants, and others be seen when the Louve can't keep the lights on?
The only people who won't be hit are the damn farming, fucking Africans. They might not even realize whitey's all washed up. A couple of hundred years from now they'll still be fucking and farming and happy about it. We'll be dead, our skyscrapers abandoned, and the culture vanished. Maybe a few small groups will survive sporadically, but only the cultures that never left equalibrium with nature will flourish. Yeah folks, that means anyone reading this thread is living in the worst possible place.
That means we all need to worry about here and there, cause here and there are closer than we think.

[Daculling]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vegasmade', '
')America may be the most unsustainable country, but America's leaders view nukes as tools of statecraft. They won't be taken down without dragging everyone else with them.

[jaakkeli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vegasmade', 'L')ast week I saw a lecture for a book titled The Earth is Flat. It was basically a live commercial. The book was about how tech has leveled the global playing field. (outsourcing and the like) The author, a NY Times columnist,

[snowhope]

This thread is quite sad. Why do some people feel they need to have a go at each other?

No doubt there are many Americans who dislike the extent of the gross over-indulgence that goes on in some sections of US society and in many other countries of the world too..... Likewise to think there are no areas of open, unused land in Europe is amazing - it is everywhere - there isn't a country without lots of farmland and open countryside - not quite as much as the US though.

Many people in this thread are guilty of stereo-typing. Lets not let ignorance of each other's environment lead us to state things which are completely incorrect.

We will ALL face PO and the aftermath. I have only been aware of it for 1 month and it has changed my life. I still haven't got over the discovery and I come in here to see guys having a go at each other...... Lets put that behind us and discuss how we and our families (I have three teenage kids) can survive the cliff in front of us.

Regards from Belfast.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaakkeli', 'T')his site has been rapidly filling with idiots. I mean, first there's the lorenzo crowd with the usual "Americans are evil, Americans are dumb" rubbish.

[jaakkeli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'T')his is not the first time in history that the islamic world has tried to take over Europe.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaakkeli', 't')he Netherlands...will be in trouble. We won't, because we're not stupid

[jaakkeli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaakkeli', 't')he Netherlands...will be in trouble. We won't, because we're not stupid

[seldom_seen]

jaakkeli,

My original point was that large scale immigration of muslims in to Europe will make the problem of peak oil only worse. Right now it is already creating tension (my example of Holland and the Van Gogh murder). For some reason you got your underwear all bundled up in a knot over this statement.

This is not a racial statement, because islam is not a race (although non-arabs who convert to islam may have a story or two to tell you about racism and the way they are treated by arab muslims. Those who consider themselves "true muslims". Or Saudi Arabia, which may be the most racist and intolerant country on the planet) I know that is hard for you to understand, because in your dim myopic worldview a racist is a "skinhead."

Lets take a survey of some of the conflicts raging around the world and see who is involved:

Bosnia -- Muslims vs Serbians
Ivory coast -- Muslims vs indigenous, christian
Cyprus -- Muslims vs christians
East Timor -- Muslims vs christians
India -- Muslims vs Sikhs, Hindus
Indonesia -- Muslims vs christians
Kashmir -- Muslims vs Hindus
Kosovo -- Muslims vs Serbs
Kurdistan -- Muslims vs christians
Macedonia -- Muslims vs christians
Middle East -- Muslims vs jews, christians
Nigeria -- Muslims vs animists, christians
Pakistan -- Muslims vs Muslims
Phillipines -- Muslims vs christians
Chechnya -- Muslims vs russia
Sudan -- Muslims vs animists, christians
Thailand -- Muslims vs Buddhists

Now, If I was an alien statistician who just landed on earth from mars. I might come to the conclusion that muslims have a little bit of difficulty getting along with their neighbors (regardless of what color the muslims are). If I dug a little deeper and read their text called the Quran, I'd notice that there really isn't a whole lot of emphasis placed on co-existence with non-muslim neighbors. In fact the Quran offers them three choices 1) conversion 2) slavery 3) death.

Here are a few pictures of some of the humble islamic immigrants who have come to Europe looking for work:





I'm sure though that once the effects of peak oil set in, everyone will set aside their differences and work for the common good.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Don't expect hard facts to matter Seldom_seen.

Great post.

[jaakkeli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'F')or some reason you got your underwear all bundled up in a knot over this statement.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaakkeli', 'I')'m only upset about Nazi assholes like you. If PO truly leads to a complete societal breakdown, I'll enjoy the chance to kill you little shits.

[Liamj]

I'm certain that the majority of SS were christians, prob even GOOD christians, at least until the disassociative training of nationalism, fascism, war and genocide warped them.

Most of the armies currently trying to subjugate Iraq (+100,000 dead) are from nominally christian countries. The country that dropped the 1st & 2nd ('experimental') nuclear bombs on civilians was christian. The recent invasions of Haiti, Panama, Afghanistan, Vietnam, the carpet bombing of Laos & Cambodia, the 'Malayan Emergency'(1950's), the Algerian War of Independence - the aggressors in all of these were 'christian' nations. Jesus seems to have been a great guy, but many of those who claim to be his followers are homicidal maniacs.

There are certainly evil muslims, and evil christians, and prob even evil quakers (aint met one yet tho). But trying to attach -ve labels to them without 100 times the evidence shown so far is plain stupid. I doubt ANY useful generalisation can be made about +1billion people living in dozens of countries.

The ignorance of Seldomseens' is tedious to rebut, but fascism thrives on ignorance. We'll soon discover if Ss (abrev.coincidence?) is just a troll pushing hate or a genuine poster capable of admitting s/he erred.

[seldom_seen]

Liamj,

If I erred in anyway it was talking about politically correct subject matter.

Here in the united states we can't have an honest debate about illegal immigration because once the topic is breached shouts of "racist, xenophobe, skinhead, nazi" are sure to follow, thereby effectively muting any sort of rational debate.

It's the same with islamic immigration in to Europe. No where in any of my posts did I argue that all muslims are bad or evil (I did point out that sharia law forbids usury, which I think is a very good thing). Although you decided to twist my posts and imply that I did so...and then went on to imply that I'm an ignorant facist SS member.

That sort of elementary school name calling BS is what makes it futile to discuss such issues in a public forum.

[Liamj]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'L')iamj,

That sort of elementary school name calling BS is what makes it futile to discuss such issues in a public forum.