Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 16 May 2011, 19:16:05

Yesterday a new 4x4 filpped out bc I passed him in a residentual area on my scooter (8hp) :lol: . He wuz going 15 mph in a 30 mph zone. He then blocked me @ an intersection, we had a few words, then @ the next intersection he stopped and waited, when I went on his right side and made a right hand turn he peeled out got along side of me and tried running me into ppls lawns. Finaly I got close enough to him and started kicking in his door with my right foot. At this point he quit. I swear, If'n I wuz carrying, I would have drawn my gun @ this crazy person. :shock:
vision-master
 

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby Mesuge » Tue 17 May 2011, 03:37:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'S')o it costs $4.00 bucks, after taxes, to get to a job for $7.25. So that is roughly 45 minutes out of your first hour.


Firstly you seem to suggest there is no plan/yearly prepaid card option on that SEPTA masstransportation system? Secondly and more importantely, I doubt you can squeez your TOTAL cost of new automobile ownership per day into $2-4 bracket anyway. It's just a rehashed myth of expensive public transport, although I understand the usual US pecularities of nonexisting/underdeveloped infrustructure in this regard. From what I recall Philly is based on fairly flat terrain, there should be blooming "alt." transportation system, incl. walking and biking lanes.. I even once took a train from burbs to the city center.
User avatar
Mesuge
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1500
Joined: Tue 01 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Euro high horse bastard on the run

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby MarkJ » Tue 17 May 2011, 08:08:55

What I find amazing is the amount of urban residents that spend a small fortune on expensive taxis when they're within walking distance, or biking distance of work, shopping etc.

The transit system is much cheaper than taxis, but many people want to be picked up, and dropped off at their apartment.

Since they don't want to walk, or bike, many also spend a small fortune having food delivered and/or spend a small fortune shopping at urban convenience stores.

One of my tenants, a taxi driver has many customers that live less than 1/2 mile from major shopping, and less than a few hundred yards from transit stops. Many also tip him for carrying shopping bags a short distance.
User avatar
MarkJ
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Wed 18 May 2011, 14:08:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'T')he problem most of our local working poor have is the "total cost" of transportation, including purchase price, high-interest/high markup vehicle financing, insurance, poor insurance, maintenance, repairs, tolls, tickets, towing, impound fees, parking space rental, lack of warranty, uncovered damages, gas, oil etc.

Many of our working poor live in urban areas with zero, or limited parking, so they'd have to rent parking spaces, or pay tickets, towing and impound fees.

High gas prices are a drop in the bucket compared to total expenses, but they certainly add insult to injury and/or may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Many lack the common sense, knowledge and skills to maintain their vehicles and/or perform relatively simple repairs, so the cost of new vehicles, or professional labor, parts and parts markup is often unaffordable.

I could (and have) given free vehicles to various income challenged workers and job seekers, but all of them ended up losing their vehicles due to the above mentioned expenses.


Much of our local working poor have never had a driver's license, or they have a suspended driver's license.

When we run DMV checks on many job seekers, many of them have had their license suspended for driving without insurance, registration, inspection, for driving with switched plates, for failure to turn in license plates, for failure to pay numerous tickets, failure to pay child support, or DUI.


Many can't afford past tickets, fines, registration penalties, legal fees etc, so they can't get their driver's license back, and can't register a vehicle.

When New York added the OBDII check to the annual safety/emissions inspection, they really screwed many of the working poor. I've seen many people that junked, or sold their vehicles since they couldn't afford the cost of emissions related diagnostic fees, parts, parts markup and labor.

Due to plate readers on squad cars, plus more and more roadblocks, substantially more drivers are caught driving without insurance, registration, inspection, licenses etc. Penalties and surcharges are much higher as well.


To work in many growth industries (home health care for example), job seekers and workers need reliable personal vehicles and clean driving records.

Many local job seekers can't even get a job delivering pizzas since they don't own a vehicle, they don't have a driver's license, or they have a poor driving record.

Many low income households rely on a single vehicle for transportation, so when they no longer have a vehicle, all working household members are screwed.

Since many areas aren't served by transit, many low income residents use taxi services, but these services are too expensive for many job seekers and workers, especially lower wage workers, or part-time workers.

Much of our local working population drives 100 plus miles per-day back and forth to work 5 or 6 days per week and/or between customers/clients homes in many service industry jobs.

I've always wondered how come the debate is framed in terms of greedy Americans wanting to drive around big gas-guzzling SUVs, but stuff like this is rarely mentioned.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
Oneaboveall
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon 01 Nov 2010, 17:56:45

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 18 May 2011, 14:16:56

This MarkJ has some kind of superiority complex. lsol
vision-master
 

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby Revi » Wed 18 May 2011, 14:48:20

I think he makes some great points. My sister had an old Saab which was costing a huge amount to fix. She had not realized that she was a poor person. She got a Hyundai and it is much cheaper to keep running. The average person spends about $9000 a year to keep a car on the road. They only spend about $3000 on gas, even if it's an SUV. If you don't drive around much it's cheaper to stick with what you have, even if it's a gas hog. Almost all of those gas hogs are dead already, like back in the 70's. They will be traded down to the underclass anyway. Rural poor people will really suffer, unless they use them like farmers do. Every time they move they have a load on. We have a bunch of farmer friends and they are buying full sized vans to do farmer's markets. They strap all the kids in, fill the thing with produce and make it worth their while. People who are just commuting are going to be out of luck soon. Really soon.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 18 May 2011, 17:26:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'S')o it costs $4.00 bucks, after taxes, to get to a job for $7.25. So that is roughly 45 minutes out of your first hour.


Firstly you seem to suggest there is no plan/yearly prepaid card option on that SEPTA masstransportation system? Secondly and more importantely, I doubt you can squeez your TOTAL cost of new automobile ownership per day into $2-4 bracket anyway. It's just a rehashed myth of expensive public transport, although I understand the usual US pecularities of nonexisting/underdeveloped infrustructure in this regard. From what I recall Philly is based on fairly flat terrain, there should be blooming "alt." transportation system, incl. walking and biking lanes.. I even once took a train from burbs to the city center.


Frankly I would like to see the system made free, or at least the bus portion. They spend something like 25% of the revenue just in the fare collection system, so it is not quite as great a loss as it would seem.

More to my point than the outright cost of a fare is the percentage of a working persons income. It is a disencentive to work if you must pay a relatively high percentage just to get to work. If it were free then it would enable people to take a job,which would improve the city tax roles and bring in more business. I believe, although I can not prove, that it would be a net gain for the city.

As to the alt transportation........just yesterday there was a debate between a couple of talking heads on the public radio station over the bike lanes. Apparently under 1.5% of the population use bikes to get to work. Personally I walk, but I am the only one in the office of 40 or so who does.
When going through hell, keep going! Churchill
Nothing is ever lost by courtesy. It is the the cheapest of pleasures, costs nothing, and conveys much. E Wiman
I know there’s no solution, so I just enjoy what’s here and I enjoy the journey G Carlin
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18651
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 18 May 2011, 17:37:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'W')hat I find amazing is the amount of urban residents that spend a small fortune on expensive taxis when they're within walking distance, or biking distance of work, shopping etc.

The transit system is much cheaper than taxis, but many people want to be picked up, and dropped off at their apartment.

Since they don't want to walk, or bike, many also spend a small fortune having food delivered and/or spend a small fortune shopping at urban convenience stores.

One of my tenants, a taxi driver has many customers that live less than 1/2 mile from major shopping, and less than a few hundred yards from transit stops. Many also tip him for carrying shopping bags a short distance.


Mark,

I agree with much of what you write and I don't mean to niggle. I would point out however that a transit fare is on a per/person basis whereas a taxi ride is on a per/trip basis. Locally for two people a taxi is about a break even. For three it is cheaper.

Not to mention the convenince and the time differential.

But on your larger points I think that there is a parallel between the car ownership issue and the expansion of check cashing shops. Marginal folks can't keep it together sufficiently to meet the minimum socital requirements. Can't maintan a car, can't maintain a bank account. They find alternative ways of doing things, even if they are not very 'efficient.'

While we can fault the down trodden for not living up to our expectations, every good manager knows that his job is to get the best out of the work force he has. In this parallel government should be helping people to do better. Far too often that is not the case.

One thing of annoyance is how folks keep going on about high speed rail. If it were ever to happen in the US (and I'm not worried about it) it would simply be a tax rebate to the middle class and big business. Although my livelyhood is tied to HSR I find myself against it on principal. (Although I will take any money shoved in my direction.)
When going through hell, keep going! Churchill
Nothing is ever lost by courtesy. It is the the cheapest of pleasures, costs nothing, and conveys much. E Wiman
I know there’s no solution, so I just enjoy what’s here and I enjoy the journey G Carlin
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18651
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean
Top

Re: Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?

Unread postby Arthur75 » Wed 18 May 2011, 18:18:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnRM', '
')(2) We're very used to low gasoline prices.

(3) Rising gasoline prices are doing real economic damage to our personal economy, despite how low they are when compared to the rest of the world.

(4) If any politician supports an increase in the taxation of gasoline, he will be a politician no more.


lol, good ones. About 4), ok could be the case, but the fact that very few people ask for higher gas tax, even amongst peak oil aware American, clearly points that you have totally "given up" at the country level on the issue ...

Tax on fossile fuels is indeed the primary policy to be set up to have the slightest chance of accelerating needed changes.
User avatar
Arthur75
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun 29 Mar 2009, 05:10:51
Location: Paris, France
Top

Previous

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

cron